Tenants Without A Written Contract- Verbal Tenancy Agreement

I have received a section21 notice to vacate the property i have rented for 25 years because the owner wishes to sell.
My question is, in October 2015 i was charged £120 for an AST but was never sent a copy or was asked to sign it, so as i have not read the terms until Dec 2016 when i insisted the agent for the owner send me my copy.
I now have a copy that was emailed to me which, as far as i am concerned could of been drawn up just because i asked for it .
I have asked for the AST on 3 other occasions in the last year.

My question is, is the AST legal as the owner is not the same as the name on the land registry?

Thanks

I had a gap of 15 days for my monthly rent,do I need to pay 50% of my monthly rent for that gap?eventhough i ask a favor for my landlord for the gap and he said no problem.

Hi my girlfriend is rent a space at a salon and has been told that she needs to leave by the end of the week. She does not have a contract but has agreed a price and also paid for the week. Can the landord evict her fro. The property or does he have to serve her notice with legitimate cause and give her 28 days to evict the property?

I have lived here since 1982 till present i live in los Angeles rent control my landlord is now telling me he does not want us to park our cars in the driveway and he said my son name is not on the rental agreement he has to get out and he could stay if he doesn't park in the driveway..and he also said uf my husband dont like he can move out....i pay rent and the driveway is part of our rental unit...advice would be nice

Hi I rent a buisiness property off the council in a town centre that is dying on its feet. I have no written agreement nor verbal. I have some rent arrears, I got in touch with the council to see if they would reduce the rent to help me in my situation temporarily an they just said 'no'. In 12 months shops are closing down on a weekly basis an the council have seen fit to let 8 barbers come to our small town. I have a barbers myself an the council put 1 directly next door to mine. I don't earn a lot an some weeks I have to put my wages to pay the rent. The arrears are what's stopping me from going, as I have a mortgage I don't want them to take it off me as I have worked hard an it's my children's if anything happens to me. Please if any one can give me some advice I would b very grateful x

I am renting a room from a 'friend' who has recently been a little off and her mother who's house the name is in has been a complete cow. I have a feeling they will 1. Ask me to move out or 2.Move my belongings whilst away on a work trip. There was nothing signed and no term agreed, I did say no later than 6 months. I pay a direct debit in to her account every month and she's asked myself to give her 1 month rent if I wanted to move out. Please can you advise me on what rights I have, I'm worried they will go through my room. Last night whilst I'm away she even let her friend sleep in my room without asking. I really need some advice. Thank you

Hi Zara,

Unfortunately, as a lodger, you have very few rights in law. Your landlord can use "your" room when you're not there and can evict you with reasonable notice - probably one month in your case. They can move your belongings as long as they take care that they are not damaged as a result.

It would have been courteous to let you know that she was intending to use your room while you were away, though.

When we moved into our new house we allowed an old housemate to make use of our spare room from the beginning of April for a couple of months until he got himself sorted. Our agreement was verbal & he is not listed on any contracts or bills, however contributes £255pcm. This has now changed to him wanting to be here until at least September. The arrangement now does not suit us as a family member is relocating to the city & I would like them to live with us instead. As this set up was only meant to be temporary I verbally gave him 6 weeks notice to move out. He was not happy but I feel this is plenty enough time, given it was only meant to be a short term favour. I was wondering if there was a written declaration anyone advises me to give him as back up to our conversation in case he becomes difficult. Thanks

By the sound of it, your erstwhile housemate is a lodger on an excluded tenancy, in which case 6 weeks verbal notice is reasonable, although it would help to put it in writing. Have a read of this:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords/letting-rooms-in-your-home-a-guide-for-resident-landlords

I have moved into a place without signing agreement and made arrangments to pay landlord. Prior to payment she has demanded me out and changed locks with my stuff in the house.. I phoned police but the advised me to landlord tennant act. I asked what would happen if I jumped through window and still stayed until i find new place they had no comment.. what can i do and how to do so.

I move into a apt a year ago this month. 6 months in I couldn't afford rent so I went to my land lord an explained that I would leave but would like to if at all possible he asked me if I did any carpentry work saying yes he put me to work at one of his property's an since then we have had a verbal agreement ( I have never signed anything not even when I moved in ) that I work off the $500 dollar rent cost. This has been working out great , I do the work that he ask of me an also to show gratitude for helping me I do things he don't ask of me but that I know has to be done . He gets well over the $500 Dollar rent cost but the deal was I work for the rent not cash so I continue to work .. a couple months ago he had surgery an stuck in his recliner witch made him ill this all being said has taken it out on me twice already by telling me to pack my things up an move an then turning around an hour or so later an apologies an tells me I can stay . Then today this being the tired time doing this he tells me that he don't get enough work out of me for the rent an that most normal jobs work 40 hours a week when I'm only working 4 to 6 hours a day 3 or 4 days a week but them hours an day add up fast an the work I'm doing would cost him so much more then the $500 dollar cost of my apt each month. I guess what I'm asking is what to do about the threats of putting me out ?? Is there anyway I can defend my self against being thrown in streets after I work so hard to live here.. please contact me with any an all thoughts, suggestions an facts that may pertain to the underlying question at hand here .. I thank u in advance for all ur time an comments in this matter..have a awesome day .

Can anyone offer advice please.
My 72-year-old mother has lived in her home for nearly 20 years. The last 10 of these years has been with the same landlord.
She received a letter yesterday from a solicitor, saying The landlord had said that on 14 December 2017, it will be the 10 year anniversary of him as her landlord, and the rent is going to increase from £350 a month to £600 a month.. she has no tenancy agreement.
Any advice welcome. She is beside herself with worry.

I rented a house back in May and they want us to rent for a year and would get us a contract still no contract but they are selling the house so what can i do because the understand was that we would rent for a year.I have not been late on rent.so if they sell the house do i still get to rent it until my agreement is up.please help.I do have message that they will get us a contract to sign.will that help me out

hi, I need help??? i'm renting a two bedroom house and they been living there for over 6 six years and there was no contract or deposit made....I told them in November that they have to leave and into now we are in February the wife has told me that by law they can live there without paying rent for 3 months. It's been 3 months since they were told to leave and they have been taking stuff out of the house but still living there without paying rent!! what should I do????

The bit about living rent-free for three months is cobblers. Have you issued a valid Section 21 notice, or did you just tell them informally? You'll need to give them at least two months' notice via a section 21. However, now that they're more than two months in arrears you could also go down the Section 8 route.

Im renting out the living room at a coworkers house for me and my boyfriend. We pay weekly and have a verbal agreement that we are to pay weekly because its just the living room. Well we were given a two weeks notice and still have to pay in the process of the two weeks. Wasnt we suppose to receive a 30 day notice to leave? Please i need answers!

Thank you so much for sharing such a valuable information.But I think it is better to have a written rental agreement all the times to avoid confusions.When I have shifted to my new home my rental agreement has been made by Homeshikari who has made a very tight rental agreement for me and I feel really comfortable now.

Hi,

I have rented my basement to a guy on verbal agreement, later i have discovered he is some kind of threat to my family, so i have returned his money and ask him to vacate in a month. am i doing right thing?
or am i going to face any legal issues.

Hi I just bought a property and there was tenants in the house from the former owner they rented the house without any contract so i did told the tenants that I would still rent out the house but I will come with a contract so they wasn't keen on the idea and I just told them that everything wil stays the same but when I present them the contract with my laws and terms it's know a problem they told me the amount of rent I want is to much and that they can't pay deposit so what rights does that have and what can I do in this matter

How do I evict a tenant without a tenancy agreement? He is also withholding goods that belong to me.

Hi. I rented my current flat on the 28th of feb 2015 WITH a 12 months signed agreement. From the end of first year tenancy I have just called up my landlord saying I would like to continue in the flat and she agrees with it. Usually this conversation takes place every year in January. I just found a better home and because I don’t want to cause any inconvenience I wrote her informing her we would vacate the premises on the 1st of January (1 month written notice basically) and she claims that because our contract will not end until the 28th of February she will keep my £2000 deposit. Now the question is she only has 1 signed contract by me which ended on the 28/02/16. What are my rights? Can she keep the deposit based on this criteria? Thank you

Good day

We are currently "tenting" without any written contract.

We had a signed contract for a full year. After a year has been completed the contract was supposed to be extended for another year and signed but that never happened. We stay is the landlord property for almost 3 months without any contract. We BEGGED him numerous times for a contract and he just simply ignore all our conversations. He read all rhe messages but do not reply on any. We do not know what is going on. We did nothing towards him to be angry or anything. We pay the rent every month on time even though we do not have a contract.

So in the meantime we bought a house. How does it work from now ? We are already in the new month. We obviously still need the give him consent that we will be moving out, although he ignores us flat.? And the money to be paid ? How does it work ? Must we still pay the full amount without a contract or any response from the landlord or can we work out prorata ourself until we move out this month and just pay that over ? What is the legal steps we can follow ?

Regards

You
Hi can someone please help me I took a property on the 23rd of April and I did sign a tenancy agreement and the landlord claims it did not get fully witnessed by both witnesses and in the 1st of the month the rent was due but after a drink local kicked my partners car he had to fix it and because the window broke while fixing the car he almost severed his fingers and had to get plastic surgery on his hand the rent was not paid on the 1st on the 5th of May the landlady showed up with whom can only be described as a gorilla sized man for intimidation purposes to evict us she pushed my partner out of the way and demanded to be in we had to leave without any of our belongings and my partner has mental health problems and flipped out and he phoned the police before he lost it and the police arrived to tell us no tenancy agreement no rights to stay there as this conversation was going on the landlord changed the locks we are currently sleeping on the floor with family my son who also has mental health problems he is 11years old I have had the police on the phone today to make arrangements to get my belongings and have him there to avoid a breach of the peace please someone tell me what I can do ????

Sold my property about 12 years ago renting it from the person yhat bought it he had told yhe mortgage company that he lives in the property but hr has never lived in the property all the mortgage letters comes to the house i was told he had to have been living in the property for a year before renting it out he also had no certificate of rental is a consent of lease required?

Hi!
Me and my boyfriend rented a room, no writen contract, and we've been there for a few months. When we left the landlord did not return the deposit and he keeps delaying under the excuse that he has no money, there's anyway I can claim it? My boyfriend was unemployed and we still paid the rent every month on time, we left the place having to pay deposit somewhere else and after more than a month the landlord is still not giving the deposit back.

I am currently living in a condo with a roommate and the landlord which had owned the condo was arrested and has not payed his mortgage or his HOA fees for some time now. He had make an verbal agreement with myself that I wouldn't have to pay rent as long as I was going to school and I kept up the place. Which has been done still. Now that he was arrested he has to serve time in jail he has decided to just get rid of the place leaving me and the roommate to leave the property. He has served us with a seven day quit or pay notice. And we have received a letter in the mail that the HOA has started the foreclosure process. The landlord had a realtor come over and tell us that he is selling the property that we have to leave asap. This does not seem right and all we ever had was a verbal contract, never anything written. What can we do and is there anything that will allow us to stay in the condo until we can have time to find another place.The amount in back pay is over 8,000 dollars. Obviously he has not been paying it since January and has just came to tell us this in September. Can anyone help me please.

Hi, i hav a tenant"school friend" thats not payin her rent on time. Whn she moved in, i asked for 500 a month but she couldnt afford it so i dropped it to 450. Didnt ask for a deposit or a month up front. She signed a year lease but 4 year later she hasnt signed the new 1 which she has had for a few years. But everytime i ask for her to sign it she never does and always says this needs sorted and that needs sorted in the house. She pays the rent in bits n bobs but am always havin to pay so i dont get in debt. I am now waiting on almost £800.

i'm legally married. my wife moved out of our rental approx 2 months ago, when we separated. she took all her belonging with her and gave up her right to the rental property. 2 months later she is trying to have me evicted. the Landlord accepted the rental agreement knowingly with only 1 signature (hers). as i was at a meeting. but the Landlord has always had full knowledge of me and my family residing here. she is asking that i be evicted so she can have right back to live here.

is that possible..

I’m letting a room out in a 4 bed home never seen the land lurd at all not given me a contract with my name on it plus one of the house mates that got me in has not given the land lords it but have gave him rent iv got the resets for it what iv payed in 4 months iv ask him time and time agin to put my name on it but he said he would but has not because of the bond money my house mats not given him and wen I ask him land lords asking me for the bond he keeps saying it’s ok iv talks with him ?yet not with me and this house friend says he’s taking the house on ??? ! But can he do this and is my landlord right in not putting my name on it or not getting back to me I feel as though something is on the up ?! Me not noing wether my house friend is not telling me what’s right or going off I’m now verry Paranorid that even though iv pays 100% in that I feel as though I can get kicked out in March ???????? I’m being right just glad iv got bank recets to say it’s gone in to my landlord bank but wen I one’s said to my land lord that the house mate has is the Landluord sounded of at me saying “ are you saying he’s keeping it” me: “ I said I don’t no and found my self making up excuses for the house mate now I’m in the middle not noing what to do or say because my house friend keeps saying he nos landlord it’s cool trust me ... I’m lost don’t trust it am I wrong please help me !!??????????🙏

Hey guys,

Just wanted to get an outsiders perspective on my families living situation and the way the landlord is going about selling the house, after verbally making an agreement to my grandmother who her and i rented this place for 28 years, alongside of my recently deceased grandfather. he stated to her that he would give her a price and let her have the first chance at purchasing the property before putting it on the market bringing in lawyers you know all the legal stuff which sounded like a good idea considering this world wide epidemic. Well little do we know not even a week after that he is phoning my grandmother (age of 79) and telling her that they are bringing in a real estate lady to do i walkthrough of the premises. We willingly complied to that. not even a week after that they are now calling my grandma and telling her not asking her that she is coming to bring potential buyers to look at our place and have a walkthrough. We were never offered the option of a virtual tour. Considering this epidemic any one would probably want the same. anyways now shes showing up unannounced looking threw the yard because she has permission from land lord to show the back unit which no one has lived in in 5+ years which is definitely not livable and looks like the roof is going to collapse any second. not to mention the mold issues have been brought up to the landlord and me and my dad offered to do all the work for a considerable amount less then any business would if he supplied the materials. Well now its come to the point my grandmother is distressed and anxious not to mention worried about this whole ordeal. which now puts stress on me and my father. Anyways i am looking for any positive feed back and opinions also any resources and help any kind person is willing to give our family. I lived her my entire 28 years of living and would hate to lose my childhood home to some unappreciated asshole.

Best regards,
Jordan T. Nicholls

What can happen if have no written agreement. Then you leave without notice to your landlord and leave items in the house. Jane

Hi I’ve been in my property for20 years my landlord does nothing repair wise when we moved in we put in a new kitchen and bathroom instead of paying a bond agreed by us and the landlord verbally he has now said he’s sold the property to his son who lives with him we haven’t seen any proof of this and the son is now asking us to pay a bond to him as he is the new owner we are in a landlord protection scheme and I have checked with them and it’s still registered under his dad do I legally have to pay this bond to stay in a property I have been in and unkept for 20 years

Hi, I found a rental property through a lettings agency in the beginning of March and had my rental offer accepted by the landlord. I paid the holding deposit and after some delay my reference checks were accepted 22 March. I have been waiting to sign the AST since then; I have chased the agent many times and he keeps saying he is waiting for the landlord to send over the EPC and electricity cert. Fair enough, but he also said at first that he would get these in 2 weeks; when 2 weeks passed and I chased him up he said he would get the certs the next week; still no sign of them or the contract. It is Friday today and I am due to move out Tuesday. The agent said the landlord is due to drop the certs off in person this afternoon, but who is to say if that will actually happen? I feel trapped, as I have to move out on Tuesday and have made all the arrangements, but what happens if I don't get the contract signed by then? Regards

I allowed a friend to stay in one of my rooms without a tenancy agreement, while he built his house. I'm a live in landlord.
Unfortunately the house build didn't happen and covid meant he's stayed at my house while he sold the land which has been a year and a half.
Now he's priced out of the property market and is talking about staying with me longer term.
I'm panicking abit about my rights, are friendship has been tested while he's been living there. What's the best move forward start a tenancy agreement? Has he developed any right while staying at my house temporarily??

My son has been renting a house off a friend for 9 years and the friend now wants to sell the property.
My son has no written contract and would like to know how much notice his friend should be giving him before he has to get out?

I rented a house to my daughter with her boyfriend moving in with her. They have been there for just over a year now. He has contributed to the rent and bills - the rent is heavily subsidised as it’s my daughter. They have now split up as my daughter no longer wants to be with him but to be kind she moved out and told him she wants him out of the house in a month. He has objected to this and stated he needs 3 months. He has parents who live in the same town (he has lived with them all his life prior to moving in with my daughter). There is no tenancy agreement only verbal to say my daughter can live there until she can afford the deposit in a house of her own. There was no deposit asked for. Is it correct that as they are no longer a couple and we want our daughter back in the house that we own that he is required to leave and as it is over a year and they pay rent monthly (not in advance either) that we are in our rights to give him a month to leave? He is being difficult and nasty to our daughter - he has no money issues, somewhere he could live. Can you kindly advise me please 🙏

Hi,
I had handed over the keys of my flat to 2 students after they paid the rent for 1 month. We were going to sign the agreement after 2 days when they had paid the full deposit. However, after 1 day, they decided not to move in and abandoned the property and starting harrasing me with calls saying I have stolen them and I am a fraud etc and I should return their "deposit" ASAP. They also started stalking me and my husband on social media and found his phone number and company details and started making threatenning calls to him. I asked them to stop or I would go to the police, so they stopped calling. However, they started writing emails saying that it is illegal for me to take the deposit without signing the tenancy agreement and they are taking me to court. I reminded them that it was not the deposit but the rent they had paid for the month and we had agreed on a 6 month tenancy with a no break clause. I however was well withing 14 days of protecting the money paid in a deposit scheme so I did that. They have now filed a dispute with mydeposits. I am wondering what claim they have as to their deposit as I have suffered monetary loss due to this as I lost out on other potential tenants and I cannot remarket my property without them giving me the keys.
Thanks.

Me and my husband have been living in his grandfather house the last 15 years renting from his father, aunt, uncle who took over the property whenever their father passed, original verbal agreement was our rent would go into a savings acct when we were ready to buy us a house, well after 8 years living in the house paying rent, my dad who is a liscenses GC in NC, was DX with a terminal DX of ALS and his dream was to build me my first house, and after paying 8 years of rent we went to my in-laws to inform them that we were going to have my dad build us a house that way when my dad passed I would still have the memories and the house he built for me after he passed away. He was given 2-5 years to live after his DX. My husband aunt informed us that my husband father, my father n law decided not to give us back our savings (rent) money back to us after paying them rent for 8 years. My heart broke when she told me and my husband that, I had to tell my dad that he wasn’t able to build us a home, that my in laws were pocketing our rent money saved up for a home. My dad teared up and said “I am sorry they did that to you baby” and kisses me on my forehead, it caused so many issues with my husband and his father. I felt so bad for my husband. Fast forward today, my husband got a text from his father this morning informing us that they were selling the property the 14 acres and my husband grandaddy house we have been living in the last 15 years. It’s not right, house market prices are so high & so is interest rates with this high inflation I have no clue where we are going to go now to live. If my dad was alive he would have already built us a home, he got taken from me, and me ever having my own home also was taking from me. It hurts so bad when your in laws put money before God & family. The pain it has caused me & my husband and our 2 kids. What can we do? I am sure nothing. Heartache it really is.

Question actually I moved from America with my four year old daughter and husband into my mother and father‘s home. They agreed we could live there for a year for a yearAnd now my mother is Constantly screaming at my daughter and wants me to move out in a day. I have no written rental agreement how much time legally do I have to move out?

Our landlord has just informed us that he is selling the property. There is no tenancy agreement with our current landlord. The potential new landlord has said he wants the property to have tenants. Can I ask for tenancy agreement with the new landlord? Also how can guarantee that we'll not be evicted as soon as he bought the property? My current landlord a ex employer I worked for, so that is the reason for no tenancy agreement.

@Amanda

Assuming your Landlord does not live in your home, i.e. that you are not a lodger but a tenant, then you have various rights.

If you are a lodger of a live in Landlord then you are likely to only be entitled to reasonable notice, probably 2 weeks. Remember if a contract says lodger agreement or license agreement it may still be deemed an Assured Shorthold Tenancy. The Landlord has to live in the same property usually with the same front door and shared kitchen and bathrooms.

If you are a tenant as the blog post above explains, neither the old or the new Landlord can forcefully evict you without a Court Order and then only with bailiffs appointed by the Court. Before they can issue the official paperwork they need to fulfil a number of prerequisites depending on whether there are any arrears or breach of contract.

If the new Landlord tries to increase the rent you can seek a rent review, but you must not pay the new rent or you will have been deemed to accept it and you must seek the referral fairly quickly. In this situation they should probably use a Section 13 notice and you in turn would refer to the First Tier Property tribunal. Don't let this scare you, I have actually had existing rents reduced when Landlords were falling short of the original tenancy.

Landlords who include energy are issuing such notices, something I don't recommend, it is better to ask the tenant to agree to an amendment to the existing agreement and move the energy to a smart meter in the tenant's name.

You would probably want to be involved with the choosing of any new tenants.

If you paid the Landlord a deposit then the Landlord needed to protect it and they may be liable for sanctions that get paid to you as explained on the post below.

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/i-havent-protected-my-tenants-deposit/

Do not just sign any old tenancy agreement, take it to CAB and have then tell you if they see any issue in it. There may be terms that are not legal such as onerous charges.

Landlords reading this might wonder where to get a decent Tenancy Agreement. Well you have three good choices, one is this very website

https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/landlords-legal-forms/

another is the .GOV website model tenancy agreement, but be warned it is embedded with notes and guidance so assumes you will trim it from the 63 pages.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/model-agreement-for-a-shorthold-assured-tenancy

The third option is Painsmiths Solicitors, they charge under £150 including VAT and in my experience are some of the most thought through and clear terms. The worst thing for a Landlord is to make up your own terms because more often than not those terms will be contrary to common law and thus void. They have 10 different agreements, some customised for the different tenancy deposit schemes, some for company and for other types of lets.

https://painsmith.co.uk/product-category/shop/tenancy-agreements/

What about if a relative with no mental capacity that you were stuck looking after most of the time, after the rest of your family dies, then moves into a property you just inherited under a new care plan by the council. There was a verbal agreement that the council get rent sorted, but there was a palava getting someone to sign a tenancy for the guy with no mental capacity, and then the council refuse to sign it after realizing youre trying to backdate the tenancy contract so that you get all the rent owed through housing benefit component of UC. Now you're owed 2 years of rent, but there was no verbal agreement for how much rent specifically and none has ever been paid.

What about it?

Is there a question in there?

"What about if a relative with no mental capacity"

A person with no mental capacity is not able to enter into a contract, it would have to be a Guardian of some sort who had been appointed and recognised.

"that you were stuck looking after most of the time"

Not a nice way to describe a family member, either commit to the them or leave it to the Council to provide their care.

"after the rest of your family dies"

Sorry to hear that

"then moves into a property you just inherited under a new care plan by the council."

One assumes the new care plan involves you the family member providing some care in return for carers allowance (as paltry as it is) or that you agreed to provide accommodation and they provide care that comes in several times a day.

"There was a verbal agreement that the Council get rent sorted"

I don't know what getting rent "sorted" means, a verbal agreement is as good as any other agreement as long as you have evidence to support it. e.g. emails referring to what might be agreed and then later emails that confirm what was agreed and then later emails chasing what was agreed. The replies from these emails could be used to confirm the existence of the verbal agreement.

"but there was a palava getting someone to sign a tenancy for the guy with no mental capacity"

As I said you have to be mentally competent to know what you are agreeing to

"and then the council refuse to sign it after realizing youre trying to backdate the tenancy contract so that you get all the rent owed through housing benefit component of UC."

Previously the easiest way to get one part of the Council to deal with something was to put another part of the Council under a liability they really do not want. In this situation it might mean going to the Council and saying you can no longer cope with the care of this person, that you had got into debt on the promise of the Council and now in order to repay that debt you will have to take in a lodger or maybe even leave the property and rent it out as a whole while you live in a one bed studio. You would have to be absolutely determined, I have known people with mentally disabled children take them to the Council and say "I can't cope because you are not providing respite, so he is all yours" and leave their child at the Council Offices.

"Now you're owed 2 years of rent, but there was no verbal agreement for how much rent specifically and none has ever been paid."

Well for any contract to be valid there has to be a "consideration", this would be the rent at the very minimum, it is not enforceable without it. Now if the Council said they would pay the LHA amount for the part of the property the relative occupied (e.g. one room plus shared use of communal areas including garden) then the LHA rates are published and you would have probably replied "OK that is acceptable". LHA rates are the maximum that is payable under housing benefit but the claimant can only claim for amount of property they NEED. It might be possible for them to require two rooms if they had a room for dialysis kit or if the person was profoundly autistic and had a separate sensory room approved by a Clinician.

The difficulty you face is that Housing Benefit is now part of Universal Credit in terms of paying (if the person does not have a legacy claim). There are still parts where it is approved by the Council, particularly for people who are part of Adult Social Care.

The first thing to do is line up your ducks in terms of evidence, this may include emails, phone calls and meetings, these could include other parts of the Council where you confirmed what the Council had agreed with you.

Technically as a live in Landlord you could be bringing claim against the Lodger, your relative or if you are a recognised Guardian then I guess you bring a claim from the relative against the Council. However, you would need to be represented by a good lawyer for them to take you seriously. Any letter before action will need details of the legislation upon which the claim is based, evidence of the failure and the amounts due.

The FIRST activity is a subject access request (SAR), ask for all documents, system notes, reports and phone calls related to you and the individual (their Guardian may need to make the request on their behalf). Expect them to hold back, for example if you know you attended a meeting on 17th December 2021 at the Council Offices and there were three Council employees present, ask why they have not included the notes from each employee about that meeting.

Do NOT involve the departments you are in dispute with or you tip your hand, liaise only with the data protection officer as they are primarily focused on complying with GDPR etc.

Then, I would speak to the Adult Social Care team, inform them that you are going to be giving up caring for the individual, tell them the reasons why and give them formal notice of 14 days. They need to feel that you are totally serious, it is not what you want to do but what you must do as you are in a financial crisis caused by their failure to do what they promised they would do. You can mention, (If you are the only other adult) then having the relative even costs you 25% of Council Tax rebate as single occupant.

Do not use words like "sorted" be explicit about the amounts agreed, even if they were indirectly implied, e.g. "well the most we could pay in housing benefit for him is the LHA rate for what he occupies and needs".

In my experience the cost of looking after a disabled adult can be well over £150k a year, so the Council will have to consider whether it is in their financial interest to sort this out, maybe with an equivalent discretionary payment once the new Tenancy and claim is agreed. This is when one part of the Council panics, they will usually use scare tactics like "we may have to send him out of County" to which you respond "that is your decision, you are now totally responsible for his care".

With the Adult Social Care staff you usually deal with you can be emotional about the anxiety and stress you are suffering about debt while you are trying to do the best for your family member. However, you have had to make this decision and so here is the formal notice which includes his reasonable notice for eviction as a lodger.

It might be that you are not in debt but planned on using the income to make the property more disability friendly or better suited to his needs.

Good Luck with your situation.

@David
I was mostly venting, not expecting anybody to reply really, thanks for doing so.

"A person with no mental capacity is not able to enter into a contract, it would have to be a Guardian of some sort who had been appointed and recognised."

No, I was actually also my brother's apointee, but that would mean I would sign both parts of a tenancy agreement by myself, which is illegal, so the court of protection was sought to do a deprevation of liberty, so that the council could sign one on his behalf. The council was about to sign the tenancy until they realized I was backdating rent and then someone higher up obviously thought that they could save money by employing some twisted tactics. (After re-reading everything I see you think he was a lodger, explained in next paragraph, but I can understand if you don't want to go any deeper!)

"One assumes the new care plan involves you the family member providing some care in return for carers allowance (as paltry as it is) or that you agreed to provide accommodation and they provide care that comes in several times a day."

The house I inherited wasnt the one I was living at, the council did try very hard to get him to live with me longer (had been 75% of the time for past 2 years) and for his care team to work there, and I would have accepted this except I had friends of other disabled people tell me I would be stuck in that situation for decades, unable to move him on to a council flat, he is in his mid 30's its ridiculous that he is still not permanently housed as is. So I let him move into the inherited house with his 24 hour care, under the condition that I would receive rent for the huge amount of inheritance tax I had to pay off still.

I have many, many emails complaining about this before he moved in and for months afterwards. The housing benefit went to a tribunal though as I was rejected for still not having the tenancy contract signed (the DOLS process was still going through the court of protection) I was led to believe that just the fact that the process was proven to be undertaken would be good enough to get the houisng allowance.

"I don't know what getting rent "sorted" means, a verbal agreement is as good as any other agreement as long as you have evidence to support it. e.g. emails referring to what might be agreed and then later emails that confirm what was agreed and then later emails chasing what was agreed. The replies from these emails could be used to confirm the existence of the verbal agreement."

Yes I have many, many of these, I was extraordinarily perturbed every week that had elapsed without my rent, the interest on inheritance tax is painful.

"Previously the easiest way to get one part of the Council to deal with something was to put another part of the Council under a liability they really do not want. In this situation it might mean going to the Council and saying you can no longer cope with the care of this person, that you had got into debt on the promise of the Council and now in order to repay that debt you will have to take in a lodger or maybe even leave the property and rent it out as a whole while you live in a one bed studio. You would have to be absolutely determined, I have known people with mentally disabled children take them to the Council and say "I can't cope because you are not providing respite, so he is all yours" and leave their child at the Council Offices"

I actually am in debt because of them, and I can't even get a lodger in where I live or rent it out because even for a lodger that would cost me 2K+ to fix the electrics at my property.

"Well for any contract to be valid there has to be a "consideration", this would be the rent at the very minimum, it is not enforceable without it. Now if the Council said they would pay the LHA amount for the part of the property the relative occupied (e.g. one room plus shared use of communal areas including garden) then the LHA rates are published and you would have probably replied "OK that is acceptable". LHA rates are the maximum that is payable under housing benefit but the claimant can only claim for amount of property they NEED. It might be possible for them to require two rooms if they had a room for dialysis kit or if the person was profoundly autistic and had a separate sensory room approved by a Clinician."

I would have been happy if it was just one bedroom LHA that he recived, he is profoundly autistic and has a 2nd sensory room and likely would have received 2 bedroom allowance. Also I tried endlessly for his care company to move someone else in, if there was another quiet individual he would have still been fine as it's a big house (with room being frankly wasted). Even though I kept up on repairs and even prepared an EPC, gas safety and EICR, they just ignored me.

I was his apointee anyway and could have just written a higher amount on the tenancy contract. He could have afforded 2/3 market rent easily to top up to and that would have made it just about bearable long-term for me.

"The FIRST activity is a subject access request (SAR), ask for all documents, system notes, reports and phone calls related to you and the individual (their Guardian may need to make the request on their behalf). Expect them to hold back, for example if you know you attended a meeting on 17th December 2021 at the Council Offices and there were three Council employees present, ask why they have not included the notes from each employee about that meeting."

Yes, I had approached a few lawyers, only one was prepared to sue adult social services though. If I can ever afford to go down that route I will do the SAR part myself to save myself money I suppose.

"Do NOT involve the departments you are in dispute with or you tip your hand, liaise only with the data protection officer as they are primarily focused on complying with GDPR etc."

Wish I had thought about tipping my hand before in a different context. I screwed up sadly already.
So basically the times I saw both social workers they lied through their teeth, and I have never seen such bare faced depraved attmepts to manipulate me. Anyway I said they didn't seem to want to sign the tenancy contract after noticing that it was backdated. A lot of bs excuses they came up with, "it's too late", and trying to blame the housing benefit office even though everything hinged on them signing the tenancy which they were legally able to easily do.

In a later email I told social services that the housing benefit tribunal was delayed because we were waiting on SS to sign the tenancy which was needed for the tribunal to award the housing benefit.

So they incorporated this information into their plan to avoid paying me the money. They came up with 2 reasons to remove me as apointee. Removing me as apointee prevents me from even delaying the tribunal another 6 months, which means that even if the SS ombudsman agrees with me, best case scenario is another 18 months with no rent as it will take a long time to start the tribunal process again for hosuing benefit. So yeah... I shouldnt have given knowledge of the other department... thanks for teaching me how it works now. Hopefully info can be found in SAR's

The 2 reasons to remove apointeeship they used are infuriating.
1. Im threatening to evict my brother. Yeah no ****, i'm financially dependent on rent which hasn't been paid for 18 months and am close to having to sell a property and eating peanuts every day because of them. The worst part is SS is clearly the one not acting in his best interests, not ME! They WANT me to evict him, so they dont have to backdate the money.

2. They FINALLY looked at the will (which they should have done a long time ago if were seriously consdiering rental payments) , which was NOT a standard one and thus very complicated. I know from speaking with lawyers that SS usually employ their own in house team even when they should employ specialists. Anyway they came up with some nonsense that my brother actually inherited the house 2 years ago which is hilariously wrong. But they didnt legally prove this at all and still advised the benefits offices to remove me as apointee and tell the housing tribunal to not communicate with me anymore as I was no longer the apointee.

Anyway thanks again for the answer, I think I explained some stuff badly before, he's not a lodger etc. I don't think I will be able to avoid evicting him now, just waiting to see what social services have to say to the housing benefit office's tribunal court. I am in hugue debt, terrible inherritance tax, will lose the house if I delay much longer sadly. Every bit of time they can trick me into waiting further increases the stress on myself and chances the house will be sold, can't risk more than 2 more weeks, am at snapping point and living on peanuts as is.

We are just stuck atm trying to figure out what type of tenancy it is, he lived there part time under the care of a now disbanded charity before moving in there fully under social services care. I think it's some kind of mixture of a non-assured tenancy and an AST.

Hello,
I’m living in a sharing house and I’m the only sole tenant of the house. I was planning to change sole tenant to joint tenant but they every time when need to pay bills started argue and changed behaviour with me so I refused to give tenant and told them to leave house. When they let in I told them a fix rent excluding bills. Now they refused to pay any bills and staying in house without paying. And they want me to show them a tenant and I directly refused. I told them leave the house in 1 mnth and pay the bills but they refused to pay also told me they are ready for legal action and warn me to put in jail. What I need to do? Do I need to call the police? Owner told me you are the owner as a tenant so you can change lock and kick them out. Or just change the lock?

I have lived in a property for around 9yrs which was cash in hand to a live in landlord. A rent book was signed but never seen again, I have a serious back and knee issue and mental health. For 3yrs was in and out of work and in dec 2023 had knee surgery with the landlord saying I can't claim benefits to the property as it is a unofficial tenancy, something he failed to explain properly on me moving in. With not letting me claim was taking half of my ssp payment each month as rent and adding rest into arrears knowing am unable to work, even when working wouldn't let me put a lock on my door, would constantly go in my room and he even managed to break the radiator by turning it off when I wasn't home. Now am trying to move out, won't give me any help towards claiming council housing and claiming £820 in arrears, I feel given the grounds he has no rights to ask for this payment given he has put me in debt not letting me claim an threats he would remove me from the property if I did

@David Halshaw

On reading your shocking message, you need to leave that property, no matter what happens you need to leave.

"I have lived in a property for around 9yrs which was cash in hand to a live in landlord."

Them living in the same house makes you a lodger (if you are not in a self contained property with it's own entrance), which means you have far less rights, but there are other issues.

"A rent book was signed but never seen again"

It does not matter whether you have a rent book, what matters is that you have evidence of living there. bills, bank or credit card statements, registration with GP, Hospital Appointment letters.

You urgently need to contact HMRC and inform them that you have been living there paying rent in cash to a Live in landlord who is controlling you .

https://www.gov.uk/report-tax-fraud

"the landlord saying I can't claim benefits to the property as it is a unofficial tenancy, something he failed to explain properly on me moving in."

The Landlord has no right or ability to stop you claiming benefits, this sounds like a case of coercive control, you need to contact Adult Social Care at your local Council. Explain that you are vulnerable & less able and need their help to get out of a coercive control situation.

"With not letting me claim was taking half of my ssp payment each month as rent and adding rest into arrears knowing am unable to work, even when working wouldn't let me put a lock on my door, would constantly go in my room and he even managed to break the radiator by turning it off when I wasn't home."

You have the right to possession of what is rented to you and you have the right to what is called "quiet enjoyment of the property" that means they can't go into your room without your permission unless there is an emergency such as a gas leak.

The Landlord has no right to TAKE your money without your consent, have the money paid into a bank account, change any pins and ask for new debit card. If you are concerned they will steal your post ask the bank to allow you to collect the card.

If there has been any physical force used against you then this is assault and domestic violence as well as coercive control. You need to report these to the Police and get a crime number.

"Now am trying to move out, won't give me any help towards claiming council housing and claiming £820 in arrears, I feel given the grounds he has no rights to ask for this payment given he has put me in debt not letting me claim an threats he would remove me from the property if I did"

You do not need the Landlords' help towards claiming Council Housing, if you go to Social Services Adult Social Care and explain that you are in a domestic violence/coercive control situation and a vulnerable adult they will have to act.

Any debt can be disputed, he can't on one hand say that the occupancy is "unofficial" (there is no such thing by the way) and then say he wants to make a claim against your benefits.

The most important thing is that you contact Adult Social Care and let them help you make a Police report, you will be able to show he has been forcing you to surrender your SSP, the debt is a civil matter, but his taking of your money and coercive control is a criminal offence.

Once you are free from him you can claim universal credit, then add PIP and Employment Support Allowance. He can ASK the DWP for a part payment but the maximum is around £4.25 a week, this can be stopped by you telling the DWP that you dispute the debt, that he has been stealing your money and had you under coercive control for years. You give them the crime number and tell them that they should not entertain any claim until a Court has determined what is owed and the Police have determined whether to press charged.

Clients of mine in similar situation are moved to a studio, B&B or room in HMO at least 30 miles away as a matter of emergency situation.

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