Property After Death – Why & How To Leave Property In A Will

There is absolutely no reason to prepare a will unless you want to have your assets leave your family after you die. Or have 10 children and particularly dislike one of them...

I am still trying to get rid of the image of two nurses yanking your bone into place.Is this a service you get on the NHS or are you with BUPA?

I made my first will in my 30's,and have made necessary changes over the years.Even if you use a lawyer it is not expensive.Two elderly neighbours died few years ago.They were childless and no living relatives could be found.Despite saying they wanted to leave everything to a charity,they died intestate,and the tax man got the lot.Sickening.

Your poorly finger has clearly changed you quite profoundly,so you will remember 2017 for the rest of your life.Hope 2018 is less traumatic,with good health and happiness for you.

@opp
Irritatingly, if you leave the lot to your favourite child(ren) and nothing to the layabout arsewipe, the layabout can dispute the will and grab what the courts decree to be their fair share. Something about the government having the idea that giving your child enough cash to live on stops them claiming as many benefits, or something
The only way I can see around this is to sign over assets to the golden child and hope they don’t fuck them all off. Rock and a hard place.

For the last 20 or so years I have been supporting the pits of society in one way or another. Whilst they bought the latest phone. watched netflix all day and refused to shop in any shop unless it was within 20 walking paces I cleaned up their crap.
I admit that I made a reasonable living out of it and built up a small empire until one very nice lady that I was married to put a rapid end to my luck by having affairs.
Not to be beaten I rebuilt with the help of my daughter. Without her it would have been impossible.
Now having supported the lazy bastards of society through multiple taxes we find that the end result will be a 40% tax after some measly allowance.
So even with a will everything my daughter helped work for will be diminished.
Fortunately she is a good un so my ill gotten gains will be willed to her less a few gifts to friends and notable causes.
You see as a landlord I invested in a capital asset and made my living from a return on that invested capital. So whilst the living was goodish the capital was high . Thus on my departure my inheritors will not benefit as much from my assets due to taxation.

In fact few landlords have an exit plan. But time catches up and before you know it you are still working like I did at 68 doing up houses to sell off.

What a mug. 40% of my estate being grabbed by the taxman. Whoopee Doo. I should have begun my exit plan earlier and saved between 12 and 22% which is the differential between CGT and inheritance tax.

Then instead of clearing up the shit left by crap tenants I could have had an easy life driving nice cars , wine women and song.

So you bet I have a will. Ive given up enough of my lifetime to create something and I would like it to go where I want and not be fought over by a load of grabbin relatives who never talked to me.

@The Landlord,

"the dominos would probably fall in such a way that my drunk uncle ends up snorting my life's work up his nose!"

Going on past record, there is a fair chance you've fucked this up as well. (I'm beginning to suspect you are my fuckwit nephew BTW).

For landlords, I'd recommend using their regular solicitor, probably get it thrown in on the next instruction for a similar price. But for those really wanting to go online;

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/free-cheap-wills

"Farewill*: An online service that quickly takes you through the process of creating a simple will for individuals or couples in England and Wales. Normally costing £50 for a single will, use the promotional code PIP3 at the checkout and you'll get a 30% discount"

@Nige
If your wealth is big enough to enter 40% inheritance tax bracket and you trust your daughter, just give her your estates until you fall below 40% bracket and hope that you won't die within next 5 years. No tax paid on your heritage, problem solved, you're welcome :)

Oh dead simple then !!! Give it to someone and struggle along for the next 7 years ? Errrr Its a one way street with gifting.
As I said in the beginning I was one of these poor men who stupidly married the wrong woman and things like pension plans are depleted.
Unlike a lot of countries who have now realised that inheritance tax is unfair this country keeps the majority poor and working like hell. Unless of course you are on benefits.
Those on benefits have no idea how working people are hit.
Save for a pension . Sensible people do. Then when the state pension comes you do not get the top ups.
Own your own house? I have a 61 year old friend who kills herself every day by working in pain. Why ? Because she lives in a one up one down property that has a mortgage. She will not be helped by the state because she owns about £20k equity. Her current prospect is dire. Lose the house because she can't pay mortgage. No benefits until her megre savings have gone. No help from council because she is deemed to have made herself homeless.
So its not just the ''rich'' who are kept to the grindstone. Ironically she is a property manager letting to DHSS.

But thats the way it goes.
Going back to the original thread. As a landlord I invested instead of pissing all my money down the pub. I have worked all hours from cleaning shitty toilets to toiling for hours over useless paperwork. It actually doesnt take much to hit that inheritance threshold. A 2 bed house £200,000 plus one 2 bed rental £200,000 will pop you straight over. (thats prices here currently and we are well up from London.)

Im not whinging about things generally because I do reasonably OK and like every other working mug in this country I get turned upside down and my pockets shaken dry. What I am saying is that for the 53 years I grafted I would like to leave something to my family or to charitable causes to be remembered by.

@Landlord
Thanks for your wishes . Wrapped in cotton wool ? Some bloody hope !! Crawling towards 69 (not the sex position) and spent several of my final days days trying to get a cooker fixed for a DHSS tenant who smashed the oven door just before xmas and sits watching TV all day when they are not breaking the cooker.

I do think however that younger people do not see the future. I didn't. The forcing of people to take out pensions when they are working is a prelude to the state pension being cut back in the future. Its much the same as the 'child gift at birth' started about 20 years ago. Parents were meant to top up. Results ? No DHSS for 18 year olds when they leave school. Student fees the price of a good car.

Its much the same as us having a huge bill for Britexit when some countries have never paid a penny in !! OMG here go out taxes rising again .

"Opp - There is absolutely no reason to prepare a will unless you want to have your assets leave your family after you die. Or have 10 children and particularly dislike one of them..."

Unfortunately it doesn't work like that.
The surviving spouse can meet someone else, marry them and have them take everything. The kids from the original marriage get shafted.
I know 3 people this has happened to.

I would much rather determine exactly how it is to work and specify it in my will.
However I do admit to being one of the 97% with a will that is out of date so great to see this blog post.

The other issue is the potential cost of care sucking you dry before you die.
It will be interesting to see if the wills from Farewill make allowance for setting up trusts.

Thanks Landlord
Pete

@landlord

You have to split filthy and rich into 2 parts.
Filthy yes.
The only 69 I get these days is the bus with my bus pass but at least the bus droops (just like me)at the front so I don't have to step up and I don't have to grab a pole at the rear to hang on for dear life.

Rich ?

If I totally cashed in I might just get half of a 2 bed flat in London and share a bathroom and kitchen. Just hoping that whoever I bought it with was about 25, slim and blonde. (just a dream but if I did share with her my inheritance might be paid out earlier than I was hoping for)

Unless you have a very simple estate,it really is best to pay a solicitor.There is nothing quite like a will to have people show their true colours.I am a trustee of an animal charity.Legacy income has fallen dramatically for all charities in the U.K.Anyone who is eligible to contest a will can get legal aid to fight their case.We have to pay our legal costs.

Often the amount of money would not change their lives substantially,they just like to make trouble.One current case is still unresolved after five years,and we had to decide to withdraw due to legal bills.

A good solicitor can advise on ways to avoid your money going to such scumbags.

Merry Xmas landlord,

@Nige
I do not know how it works in the UK but in South Africa there is a legal method of donating your assets (piece by piece) to your daughter whilst you retain life rights to the enjoyment of them. Perhaps David (this sites legal boffin) could advise?

@Andrew

There are many methods of transferring property/assets in advance of your demise. These are often complicated and you really need a good accountant /financial advisor to deal with them. This is something that most people never consider.
Many landlords are accidental landlords. I was. Never intended to be in property but hit a great deal in 96 and things rocketed.
Then in 2007 came the recession. Just at the same time my x cleaned me out . Boo Hoo. But what it meant was that I was relying on rental income and not asset disposal to live.
One of the things about asset transfer is that it is a one way street. Yes you can give your kids the property subject to inheritance rules but they cannot give it back and they collect the rent.
Another really nasty one and most people do not know this is a property is always subject to cgt so not only do your trustees have to deal with inheritance tax they also get hit with cgt. Thats one hell of a tax bill.
One way around a lot of this is to set up family trusts. I don't know all the rules on this. I do know that a friend's father died and his estate was in a family trust. The trusts trustees then bought a house for my friends son who lives in it. One advantage of this is that should the son divorce he is not the actual owner of the house.
Oh its so complicated !! The unfair bit is that instead of frittering my cash away I took care of it only to face the possibility of my estate losing most of it.And like most people I left this rather late and instead of blowing it on wild women or song ...which I am doing now !!! I thought I could help my kids on their way in life.
Of course this is a peculiar situation as landlords were encouraged to build up the buy to let market to help out the housing crisis.
But there are only 2 things in life that are certain. Death and taxes !!!

A few things:
- have a Merry Christmas, "the Landlord"; didn't realise you were only in your 30s - so jaded/wise so soon;
- don't know if this helps anyone, but Roy Jenkins (sometime Labour Chancellor before defecting to the old SDP) is reported as saying that Inheritance Tax is only paid by people who like/trust their family and friends less then the Inland Revenue (i.e. give it to relatives etc, before you die and IHT grabs 40%). Wish my late uncle had known that, I was the only blood relative and had to sign the biggest eye-watering cheque in my life to HMRC for money that could have come to me direct before death;
- better not to die "intestate", i.e. without a Will. If you do, then Intestacy law decides which relatives, in a strict blood relative order, your 'riches' go to (only advantage with this is that relatives can't squabble and can only blame the law, so clever great-uncle did this intentionally after previous family squabble after a death). If no relatives, then all goes to the State;
- MOST IMPORTANTLY if you love someone you leave behind, leave a Will for them even if you are only worth a penny. The hassle of sorting out a lack of a Will by someone you care for, even if they had no money but just a few possessions, is so much hassle, even with Intestacy rules (as above), is something you'll curse them for. Yes, I've dealt with that situation. (Her children could demand 'her' possessions from the house you shared with their (divorced) Mum and whom you cared for while she was slowly dying, if not married and no Will so you have no rights but they have all rights, you are legally nobody). People think it won't happen to them: you never know until the time comes and the Sh1t hits the Expelair. I got off fairly well and the house was mine, but it wasn't nice. And Intestacy is sooo much hassle and I've now been caught twice (invalid will by my father second time, would have been much easier if Will had been valid even though he had passed on all assets to me without me knowing about all of those he had passed on at the time, and the 7 years before his death to be IHT free, clever chap).
- Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone: "live long and prosper" as the (Star) Treckkies say.

@Landlord. Thanks for such a great forum and one with a sense of humour as well !!

I will add that according to my sources a solicitor will charge about 5% for sorting out an estate. Thats more money out of the inheritance I wanted to give .

Happy new year and many of them .

Solicitors always say that they make more money from sorting out home made Wills than they make from doing the job themselves in the first place. So however you do it - make sure you do it properly.

Do not name a bank or solicitor as an executor in your Will - banks in particular charge an absolute fortune. There's nothing to stop your executor getting some or a lot of help from a solicitor, but they will remain in charge of the process.

Do not cut out any relative (eg your wayward step daughter). Instead, leave them a small amount - and put an explanation in the Will saying why you have done so. They are in a far weaker position to challenge the Will than if they are omitted completely. Also (from what I have read - not experience) I think it is difficult for someone to successfully challenge a Will unless they were dependent on the deceased.

If you think there is any chance of your Will being challenged on the grounds of your mental incapacity, get a doctor (either your GP or you could stalk someone at the staff entrance of your local hospital) and your Solicitor to witness it. Doubtless it will cost you a bit to get one to come to the office of the other at the appropriate time, but it would be pretty difficult for anyone to later make a challenge that you were not of sound mind.

If you want to ask legal type questions, including about Wills and Probate, I recommend lemonfool.co.uk - legal issues board.

yes, wills are very important. We made ours years ago (and yes, they need updating!) when we found out that if we both died together without a will my husband's family would get the lot!

Also, re: contesting wills - I read somewhere recently that the way round this is to leave an unloved relative something very small (and possibly hideous?) in the will. This way they cannot claim to have not been considered and therefore contest apparently!

And finally - check how % stuff is left - especially if it is going to charities. A client's mother had left a % to a large charity in her will and it was worded in such a way that the charity were able to prevent the sale of her house for under the market value which caused a lot of unhappiness for the rest of the family as they wanted it sold quickly and the estate sorted. This meant the charity prevented the estate being sorted until the house sold for the full market value - which took some time apparently.

Thanks for spurring us on to get our affairs in order!

How did I miss the xmas blog post.....

Yes got a will in place, relatively painless to do. The process also revealed that due to various insurance policies, if both me and mrs grumpy die in the same plane crash then our relatives will be living the high life for a long time.
Hence it started a rapid cancellation of said policies.

Also having just spent another £1000 of MORE fire alarms for the building the decision to sell up was the correct one. Apparently the 12 existing was not enough.

Apparently we are the scumbag capitalist overlords and not the thick as mince tenants who removed the plug from the fridge so he stuff the WIRES into the plug socket back to front “cos it stops the eleccy meter charging them...”

Gggggrrr

@Grumpy

Do you mean the scumbag tenants who whinge about filling in forms to get free money whilst I am still struggling over last years accounts working under candlelight to avoid a fine ?

Electrics? How about the extra twin socket we found they fitted. It was noticed because they had fitted it with 4 inch nails and connected it with the cable used for light fittings. Or the kitchen we found where every socket had been rewired with reverse polarity.Your post may explain why. Or the lovely divider unit with 4 twin sockets hard wired with a bit of chord from an iron.

Now you know why tower blocks catch fire.

@Nige.... its Obv innit, I forgot to mention the reason I found the reversed wires was they had a gas leak and had forgotten to mention it.....

I once found Coal in the Oven, yes coal. Apparently an electric oven does not cook food properly!

surprisingly the tower block story didn't really get the full story on BBC..... http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/15/man-whose-flat-started-grenfell-blaze-packed-luggage-before-raising-alarm-6710853/

@Grumpy
I will race you to publish the book.
Talking to a letting agent the other day who got fed up with calls asking ''how to''. She told them the best solution would be if she moved in to make sure they did things right.

@Nige

Good luck with the book, no one will believe it.
Im dealing with the cockroaches now. Apparently the cockroaches and the piled high food and rubbish in the flat are unrelated. Also apparently the bins are full, again unrelated to the fact they have to actually put the bins out one a fortnight to actually be collected. Sobs....

Goal for 2018.... sell all properties...

@Grumpy
They might believe it !! After all you have seen the 'you've been framed' type of programme on tv.Who the hell would insure humans ?
Currently down from 13 properties to one and thats with an agent.

Sell ? Now you are in the wonderfull world of CGT ...more work.

@Nige
Done a bit of research. Its called a usefruct or life rental under Scottish law.You gift usefruct property in tax efficient manner to daughter, she owns it, you retain enjoyment of property till death.

@Anndrew
Thanks for the info will look it up.