“I Have Worked Hard My Entire Life” – Yeah, So What?

No One;

Yes I can see this being a problem, you get 13 cheques/deposits a year if your on a four week payment rotation. Not as everyone else works on 12 monthly payments its kind of skewed.

NO DSS now that sucks.

Chris

I do not know if it is unique to where I live, but the LA send out payments every 2 weeks. So 2 payments in 4 weeks for a total of 4 weeks rent. And obviously that leaves 2-3 days depending on the month where there is a slight short fall.

If landlords were to charge by the week and just spread the extra 2-3 days over the 4 weeks everyone would be happy. Charging £155 per week for example gives £620 every 4 weeks and still leaves 2-3 days that would be covered by the next 4 weeks cheques (remember these cheques are sent out every 2 weeks)

Personally I would sooner the payments were made to the LL or his agent. I do worry when I read posts like those above from Emma, where "DSS tenants" are all neatly pidgeon holed in to low life scroungers, and I just feel I have no chance of ever getting a home. I am unlikely to ever be able to return to work and so will always be the scrounging "DSS tenant"

In this last month I have applied for more than 50 properties, of those 2 were willing to accept DSS, one I looked at was in my opinion unfit for human habitation and the other, the landlord would not charge the rent weekly. And since I am a straight talker I had told the LL that I would not be able to make the 2-3 day short fall up from my benefits on the PCM rent of 650. Of course I was refused and I am starting to lose hope. I have found myself in this position and it is not the fault of any landlord, but it does seem all DSS tenants are viewed in the same light.

Oh well back to the search !!

No One
All of the DSS tenants I have come across are "low life scroungers" as you put it. The stories I tell are true. My comments should not worry you, rather the society we live in. Why do private landlords not want DSS tenents? I cannot answer for all but from my point of view (based on actual situations and experiences for both myself and other landlords I have contact with)the DSS tenents I have experienced have been lazy, disgusting pigs. They sit on their back sides all day expecting the working classes to pay for their lives. They could quiet easily work, but choose not too. They could quite easily run a hoover around my property that they rent from me, or clean the bathroom, weed the garden or even wash up on a regular basis - But they choose not too. The state I have seen houses in after a DSS tenent has left is nothing short of criminal damage. And us, the landlord, has to pay to put it all right again!!
Now, as mentioned above, these are the DSS tenants I have had dealings with and seen with my own eyes. They are such an issue that our local council have changed their checking policy to wean these home reckers out. And so they should. At the end of the day I pay taxes as well as everyone else (or most of us) and I want to see my money being used by people who really need it, not these lazy pigs that I know of.

As per your comments as to why "LL's" cannot charge rent weekly. We are not charities!!!!!!!! This is our business in the same way that people get up in the morning and go to work to pay their bills(I do both)!!!!!!! You are obviously answering adverts. It clearly states what the rental rate is, the basic terms and deposit etc. If you cannot agree to this then don't apply. Do you go into tesco and refuse to pay for all your shopping until 2-3 days later!!! NO!!! Why are we expected to be any different!!!!!
And No One - This is not an attack on you personally. You don't sound like the type of DSS tenants I have had dealings with but at teh end of the day only you can help yourself

Oh, And Reet
"Enrich"!??! You really do not have a clue do you !!!!!!!

Emma you have completely misread my post, to be honest after reading your others I expected nothing more.
I was saying that if landlords WERE to charge by the week, BUT add the extra 2-3 days (which would normally cover the PCM rent) then there would not be a short fall.
I have already said I think the system is messed up and personally I do not understand why the LAs pay rent weekly when almost all private rentals are charged PCM.
Yes I have been answering Ads, if the Ad says NO DSS I do not even reply. When they dont say NO DSS I make enquiries. But I am honest and so when I speak to the agent or the LL I tell them the truth.
I have a deposit and I have rent in advance, I just can not make up the 2-3 days short fall which is a consequence of the dumb way in which the LA pay housing allowence.
I was not talking about charity and if you go back and engage your brain and reread my posts you will see I have come down on the side of LLs.
To simplify what I was saying, if LLs were to charge the PCM rent over 4 weeks they would in fact gain an extra few days rent each month, and at the same time the tenant (DSS scrounger) would not have a short fall to make up.

Look at my example where I get £155.77 Per week that is £623.08 every 4 weeks. it leaves me £44.50 short with an extra 2 days in the month or £66.75 short with an extra 3 days in the month.

LLs do not charge rent 4 weekly they charge it PCM and its the 2-3 days that causes the problem. THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, the LAs need to get their act together. But in the mean time it might pay LLs (those that are willing to accept DSS tenants) to spread that extra 2-3 days over the cost of 4 weeks so that they meet their mortgages and people who are in reciept of benefits dont have to try and pay a shortfall from their benefits.

And finally Emma I have spent my whole life "helping myself" I have paid into the system, my parents have paid into the system and my grandparents have paid into the system. You need to stop looking at benefit claimants as scroungers. My national insurance and tax was paid in case I ever needed help or fell on hard times. It is not a priveledge it is a right, they call it social security.

Yep, lets change the entire system to suit DSS tenants!!!!

£623.08 every 4 weeks leaves you £26.92 short for a £650 rent. That is less than £1 a day you have to save over the month to ensure you have a roof over your head. But no, you'd rather moan about the system instead of "helping yourself". You are all the same you think it is your god given right to get benefits. My parents, grandparents, great parents....have all paid into the system. It doesn't give me the right to then start clawing it back whilst others continue to pay into the kitty. Just work out how much benefit you get in a single year and then calculate how many peoples taxes have to pay for that. Course you don't think of that do you. To you its a never ending pot of cash that people like me have to support and continue supporting. Without people like me, people like you would be living in poverty.
And I did read your posts, as I have all the others who are whinging about landlords. All I can see if selfish moaning from people who expect others to wipe their arses for them. The world doesn't owe you a favour and nor do I.

Emma all I can say to you in response is that you do not even know me or how I came to be on benefits. If I were able to I would be working. I would do any job I was able to, I have even applied for jobs with my medical problems but have learned that no one wants to employ middle aged people with severe health problems.
I do not want any favours from anyone least of all you. If you go back and read what I wrote you will see I was not moaning at all, just making a suggestion that might help both parties in the case where LLs accept DSS.
I agree "a pound a day" is not much, unless you are living on less than £12 a day then it becomes a fortune.
And I can tell you that what I get in benefit is considerably less than I paid in tax and NI every week during my working life.

You have learned that no-one wants to employ middle aged people with severe health problems??? For one there are two accusations of discrimination, disability and age. If you are not qualified and/or unable to do a job, you will not be employed regardless of age or disabilty. You can obviously use your hands so why not do additional qualification that are free to you to better your chances of obtaining a suitable position. Stop feeling sorry for yourself as there are others in a lot worst of situations.
You expect us landlords to change our rental terms to suit you, I cannot see a comprimise in any of your emails. How does it better us? We have mortgages to be paid on a monthly basis which we have to meet regardless. Have you ever considered that? No!
And lets get onto your "measily benefits". You claim over £8000 in housing benefit, I'm guessing your council tax benefit is approx £1300 a year, £12 a day equates to approx £4300 a year. Grossed up thats around the £17k mark p.a plus whatever else is free/reduced when on benefits. £85k in five years, £170k in ten. How many years of your PAYE and NIC would it take to match your benefits over the remainder of your working age?

Emma,

No One is not expecting Landlords to change anything, he/she is saying the Local Authority should change to pay monthly and not weekly so it becomes easier for everyone.

I quote - "I have not quite grasped why LLs have not figured this out and charge by the week.
And I know the response is " because we have to pay mortgages monthly"
So why not charge the extra 2-3 days spread over 4 weekly rents ?
That way my rent is covered and the LLs mortgage is covered"
Thats saying that Landlords should change their terms

So who would pay the councils costs to change the system to a monthly payment?? And why should it be changed. They have a tighter hold on things doing it fortnightly. At the end of the day DSS are getting as much help from the council as they can give, it couldn't be made any easier!! If the DSS person cant then help themselves for the final stretch then .......... well, I don't think there is much more I can say!!

Dreading this, but here we go, the truth and nothing but the truth!
My name comes from confusion, mine that is.
I have worked HARD all my life.... there. Earned a nice wage, scraped and gone without, got all the money together with my husband for our own flat. Refurbished it to a high standard, lived happily ever after, maybe not.
Lost my job, couldn't afford mortgage, savings run out, could not find a new job straight away. Decided to move back to parents after 15 years apart. Let our flat furnished hoping that as soon as I get similar wages we can move back into it. Let it through a local agent he recommended DSS as they will get social they can ALWAYS afford the rent. After expenses we just broke even, did not make a single penny on it, still, hope dies last we thought the equity, long term investment, etc. will make up for it.
She left us with a ruined flat (the things we found would be a separate blog), ruined furniture, ruined boiler (would not allow engineers in). SIX months it took us to get her out. She was protected, kids and benefits.
The stress took toll on my health but hey. Lived up all the savings trying to keep the mortgage going. The stress also broke up our 12 year marriage.
By now living in a cheap rented flat ourselves we rather let them repossess our now uninhabitable flat than not to pay the rent above our head.
Separated! And here where the split personality comes from. Within a year I have become from a flat owner, married, not complaining about much to do with money to a single Mum, DSS tenant in a flat where I could still pass the credit checks last year. Due to the repossession and mortgage shortfall I will have to go bankrupt asap. My contract clearly states if I become financially insolvent I can not carry on renting this place. I also won't be able to go back to the occupation which I love because if you bankrupt you are out. Now retraining but it takes time. Once the renewal is up on this place I have a high chance of becoming homeless (with a five year old, 1 because I don't career breed for benefits) because of the no DSS accepted + bankrupted.
I would like to make a point that I have never missed a single payment on my rent EVER and apart from the mortgage I have never even paid a bill late, re stressed from being hounded from bank. In ALL my rented accommodation I got FULL deposits back because I would never cause damage intentionally.
So tell me WHAT am I in your little tit for tat above?

What am I?

That is tragic. I really feel for you and your situation.

Guessing your ruined career was as accountant?

Good luck.

Chris

Thank you.

Unfortunately there is a whole host of things you can not do once you are bankrupt, like running your own business with your husband you broke up with!? It was not a decision I made lightly but I can not have 45k plus hanging above me for the rest of my life.

It literally makes me nauseous that I will have to beg to be allowed to live somewhere because I am now DSS, even if it's temporary, as I feel distinctly uncomfortable from getting free money. I have worked in various jobs since I was 14, I am not one to easily accept handouts. Only accepting it right now in consideration to my little boy.

Hoping training will go well. Have to get a whole different course of life, new degree, etc...

My point is next time you get a DSS tenant PLEASE BE CAREFUL she has cost me nearly everything I have held dear, at the same time remember I will be out there, looking somewhere to live.

Blimey....now I know why I'm finding it hard to rent a place on housing benefit! I have been looking since March this year and I am having no luck at all, the council don't want to help even though I am classed as a sofa surfer with my two young children. I have e-mailed a lot of properties asking if they will take on dss and that I have my own deposit money and 1st months rent and a guarantor if needed but no one is interested. But from reading this post I know understand why. I also have good credit and good reference from a previous landlord but no one is willing to give me a try. I always thought if a landlord wanted to inspect the property that you had to let them in and if you damage the place you have to pay for it out of your deposit money!
This might sound stupid but if some tenants think they can ruin and not pay rent there should be some sort of law that they can be named and shamed so that way the genuine tenants actually get a chance and the bad ones might think before they ruin your house or decide to keep rent for themselves!

Hey WOW, keep the faith, I have just managed to find a landlord who accepts DSS tenants. The place is very nice and I think I will be here long term. Fortunately not all landlords are like Emma and some will treat you on an individual basis.
I will be happy here and my landlord will be happy that I pay my rent on time, everytime. I will also make improvements (with his consent) at my own expense and will look after the property because not all of us who find ourselves in this position should be tarred with the brush Emma so freely wields.
Good luck Wow I hope you and your children find a place soon.

No one.
Improvements at your own expense?? - Well done for getting a new job and coming off benefits!!

Wow
Unfortunately there is no smoke without fire. The reason landlords and agencies are strict on HA tenents is because of the bad reputation of these tenents due to damage, non payment etc. There is enough out there doing it to make it an issue.
However, and I don't know if this is just my local council or nationwide. If you are a good HA tenent with good references, they have a portfolio of private landlords willing to let to HA on the understanding that the tenents have a good history with no adverse information. The council will do a complete search into your past.
I don't know what the scheme is called but I think it is a very good idea and will weed out the scum and help those who should be entitled to the assistance.
You'll need to speak to your local housing officer

My local housing offer isn't very helpful, I have come to give up on her. She sent me a letter few weeks ago now asking if I still needed her assistance in finding a home (which she never helped in 1st place) if so I had to phone her within 14days, so I phone her office about 4 times each time she was out apart from once she was just leaving and each time I have had 'she/i will call you back'. I'm still waiting! I also got told that the council could tell me of any landlords that would accept Dss but when I ask they only tell people who was in desperate need of it, I don't know how anyone could be more desperate than be nearly homeless, I'm just lucky that some people are putting up with me and my kids. My health visitor even wrote to council on my behalf as she can see this is affecting my children. I have been practically been advised to go to doctor and get later stating I'm depressed just so I can move or have another baby which I am not willing to do! It is hard to keep faith as I'm always getting knocked back, it's getting to the stage where my sister if phoning them for me as I can't take it no more! I have came close twice to getting a place and then have let me down at last minute even before doing a credit check, which I already gave the fee for, but the estate agents have given it back I've been lucky on that side.
No One - it's great you found somewhere, just shows that there is a slight chance you can find a landlord willing to accept it. I also improved my last rented place which the landlords loved but they hated fixing problems in the house which leaded to me leaving.

blah de blah de blah, moan moan moan.
Read it you idiots, landlords hate the system, not the people.

That must have taken you ages to come up with that arguement Ryan!! Well done

@ No one

Why the hell are you recieving £650 a month in housing benefits?

I just don't get it!

I have worked since 15 yrs and 12 months, numerous jobs that have given me my independence.

I began renting when I was 18, moving out from my parents. I pulled in only £600-£800 a month. So I rented a room in a room share. That was all I could afford and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

I did this until I was 26! Shared a room in various houses at a cost approx £200-300 a month!

Im now 27 and I have saved up and bought my first apartment.

I would have at no point ever of dreamed or even known how to access funding from the state to put a roof over my head. All I knew was hard work= money = independence.

And guess what I have saved enough for a second deposit, and about to buy my first BTL which will go through later this month.

Also this was all within my means, I coudn't have afforded a £650 month house, so I rented a room at £200.

This country sickens me, every one has a hand out expecting someone else to support their high standards they set for themselves!

Discrimination or RISK!
People are getting confused DSS Tenants have increased risk, how do I know that? The insurance companies tell me with bigger premiums, so are they discriminating against DSS tenants or do they understand RISK more than most.
Some insurance companies won't insure DSS tenants just like some wont insure 18 year old drivers.
Every time I rent a property out I am taking a risk with my hard earned, it is my choice how much RISK I want to take.
Should every investor in the stock market be made to invest in Aim shares (small companies)?
Should people who only invest in commercial properties be forced to buy residential property and let it out to high risk DSS tenants?
I choose what RISK I want to take with my hard earned and nothing will ever change that.
I do let to DSS tenants but the properties that I do,didn't cost much to buy (High risk with a small amount of money).
If I am forced to take higher risk with bigger amounts of money I will sell and invest elsewhere.
The government owned banks decide where to invest and what amount of risk they are prepared to take so why can't I choose.
Do you know that very few landlord policies protect against malicious damage done by a tenant.

My goodness me what a discussion this blog post has created!

I thought I'd add my lot into the mix too but completely on the side of The Landlord (and every landlord) that the blog post was simply - and this for the people who clearly didn't read it - about an irritating line tenants on the DSS use. It is a non-statement for a couple of reasons 1) You cannot have worked hard for your entire life otherwise you would still be doing so now assuming that the tenant is still alive and not some kind of zombie. 2) What is 'hard work'? I am a teacher therefore I consider myself a hard worker because of the hours I do, the fact that I go in everyday, do my job and bring marking home etc. etc. It is not something I would write on a personal statement (and I've written plenty of those). A tenant should state that they can afford the rent, that they will pay and provide references to prove this. It doesn't matter if the tenant is on benefits or not - but The Landlord is right it is a very irritating statement just as I find 'I haven't done my homework because I didn't have the time' a very irritating statement.

What The Landlord is trying to point out is that the phrase 'I've worked hard all my life' is a silly statement that is thrown at landlords as some kind of qualification that they will make a good tenant - but it really says nothing about the tenant and if they will wreck the house or up and leave without notice or be a fantastic and a joy to rent to.

As to mistakes within the blog post, The Landlord has made only one mistake (he used thou instead of thy but that is not important). His message is totally clear from the title of the blog post and somewhere the point of it has been completely lost. To Liz, there was no incorrect use of there/their/they're within the post - thus proving you didn't read it properly and you, among others, missed the point entirely.

Hello Steve,

Thanks for taking a really refreshing approach to the DSS debate, that examins the business model, rather than labelling people. To pick up on your theses from a different point of view, many landlords' perceived increased risks of DSS are:
- More likely to go into rent arrears cf Private Sector;
- Less likely to be able to remediate arrears cf Private Sector;
- Council pay HB / LHA in arrears and first payment can take months to arrive (cash flow issues). Provate sector is normally in advance;
- More likely to cause damage cf Private Sector
- If arrears and or damage mean eviction is the only option, it takes ages and can cost lots cf Private Sector

So if everyone can accept that the "average" DSS person (not a real person, just an accumulation of all DSS receipient, so a whole range of people who are both "good" and "bad" from a landlord's perspective) represents a higher risk to a landlord, then any free market has a number of ways of dealing with this.

- Rationing, i.e. "no DSS"
- Increased pricing to reflect risk. This is not really possible. The government is trying to pay under-average LHA
- Offer a "Tescos Basics" type quality product
- Offer a good / superior product and hope nothing goes badly

I think the inability to ask for extra rent to reflect increased risk then leds to the final, bad market behaviour:

- Landlords who realise DSS are "lucky" to find somewhere and so charge average rents for an absolutely awful house which they refuse to maintain, fix and / or do safety inspections upon.

Elisia,
You posted;
"To Liz, there was no incorrect use of there/their/they're within the post - thus proving you didn't read it properly"

The Landlord posted;
"It really gets on my saggy tits when a DSS Tenant says, “I have Worked Hard My Entire Life“, to imply that their not a “typical” DSS tenant, and it’s only by misfortune that they’ve had to start claiming benefits."

It should be, they're.

Are you an English teacher? :)

Benji

They do say that the more intelligent the person they can read at a faster pace and therefore overlook such aspects missing the more common words as they read for meaning not individual words - how true that is I don't I know (that's why I say they and not me), and no, I teach French.

Hello Elisia

Thanks for your brilliant post. Very sensible. You highlight that some people just can't understand what the other party needs from an agreement.

Jeremy
I have seen landlords that don't do any maintenance but also I have been in a position that a tenant has been given a perfectly good property had about £1000 spent on it,then they have done some damage and I used to think what do I do kick them out (£500) spend another £1000 on the property (so that's £2500) or do you,
keep them in don't fix the damage they have coursed and hope they stay in for 2 years and risk been called a bad landlord for not fixing the stuff they have broken!
I have seen the council put a new kitchen in every 6 months at a council house near mine! until eventually she got moved on.

In order to separate the good DSS tenants from the bad I think the DSS should keep a good and bad tenant list anyone who damages good housing stock should never get a rented house again without they stump up for the damage they have caused in the past.

It is this past damage and the shortage of houses that have given landlords the choice of who they let to and given the choice most prefer NO DSS.

The same is happening with employment given the choice they choose people who aren't on the sick all the time costing them time and money.

Unfortunately unless someone finds a way to separate the good from the bad, DSS tenants will all be tarred with the same brush...

Hi Steve,

I could not tell if your opening paragraph was you being informative or defnesive. So I just want to make it perfectly clear I was not intimating I thought you were someone who does not treat their tenants properly.

Your dilema about what do to when someone is trashing your house but still allowed to live there is all too painfully true.

Jeremy

Just been informative as some people that read this blog don't realise the dilemma that a bad tenant can put you in,although most landlords would have had some of that treatment.

I completely agree with what the landlord has wrote . I understand how the statement might be pointless to some landlords who are just concerned about if they will receive the money or not but at the same time all Landlords have different reasons for not renting a property to DSS tenants and although im sure your not one of them , one of the reason is the stereotype , the stigma attached to being unemployed believe it or not.

From my experience if you say that you have only just become unemployed then it does make a difference to not all but some landlords and whilst there isn't much choice out there for DSS tenants in terms of housing , it most certainly is worth the energy pointing out .

I wonder if your DSS tenants can spell better than you. The amount of typos on this website is ridiculous. It's a pity you were born into money because otherwise you might have gone to college like the rest of us and actually learned something in life, instead of sitting on a bunch of houses raking in money for doing hardly anything - as you said, you are not one of the people that have 'worked hard#. You are prejudice and discriminatory, and it's people like you that perpetuate negative stereotypes and make this world a meaner place than it needs to be. Stop writing pointless posts and go out and volunteer in the community to do something constructive with the time you are wasting.

I agree with the landlords posts on here.
I worked hard to save my first deposit and have worked even harder since to grow my portfolio of houses and manage them.
I volunteer weekly in my local community, running a local club.

I am grateful for the landlord's posts as it highlights that others are going through the same issues that I experience myself. I have also learnt a lot from this site and I believe it has made me a better landlord.
You do not have to read the posts. If you don't like it, may I suggest you don't look at this site and leave it to those of us who actually like coming on here and benefit from the thoughts and experiences of other landlords.

Your articles are soooooo good. Very useful, informative, well written, perfectly structured, sarcastic (love it!). You are a jolly good writer.

I wonder what you think of this DSS Tenant?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2723558/Benefits-fraudster-claimed-74-000-handouts-owning-2-6million-property-empire-raked-150-000-rent-year-jailed-12-months.html

Just happens to be a Landlord!

Er no - Just happens to be a fraudster !!!!

Tenants vs landlords, DSS vs non DSS ... so many assumptions that totally miss the real existing & looming problem.

First of all most people claiming welfare, are actually working people. Note, unfairly I'm omitting the rich banking community who receive by far the fattest welfare cheques per head and the lion's share of welfare per sae.

Britain is now in the midst of a homelessness epidemic. Whilst many people are up in arms about the latest terrorist attack in Paris with the loss of 132 lives; a Freedom of Information order served upon the DWP a few weeks earlier, revealed that since Dec 2012 and Mar 2015, 50,500 Britons, count them, living in Britain died within 14 days of having various DWP claims stopped. That figure excludes the disabled. If these people died the same night across half a dozen venues, I doubt their deaths would have passed quite so unnoticed.

You think I'm going to blame this on letting agents or landlords ? Think again. I blame it on an economy that has been hollowed out (remember that phrase) by successive neo-liberal Gov'ts. An economy 'led' by banks & estate agents is no economy at all. The biggest threat to landlords, is not so much bad tenants/domestic rent cheats, but 300 year low interest rates so many mistakenly believe is a good thing & healthy. It most certainly isn't healthy - it is the real cancer ready to kill many a landlord.

There is so much debt created by this financialised debt-based model, it is simply not sustainable. It is reflected in large part within the bond market which is on the opposite side of the fulcrum to interest rates. It is a market full of hyper over-valued, under-collaterised derivatives of debt, much of it in reality toxic. Banks have been re-packaging toxic debt and fraudulently selling them to central banks & horse trading them as AA and AAA rated. When that bond market comes crashing down, make no mistake it will, don't expect the likes of Mark Carney or the BoE to have any control over interest rates which will automatically rise sharply. Being outrageously optimistic, if base rates jump back to historical norms, the BoE cannot hide their insolvency, nor the Gov't, nor the major retail banks, nor the numerous investment houses - they will all become bankrupt overnight. Mark Carney often talks of raising interest rates 0.25% but he never does - he can't. To do so will instantly bankrupt the BoE. Over the pond in the USA, Janet Yellen, chair of the Fed cannot even publically address the question of raising rates 0.25% without physically & literally fainting at the mere prospect. Meanwhile, for the 1st time in history, 3 month US treasury bills are being issued at zero yield - the clearest sign yet something big is soon to unfold, far far bigger than 2008 which was a mild tremor whose warning has been monumentally ignored. All that led to it far from being changed, as merely gotten bigger, deeper and nastier by years of monumental mis-allocation of capital sourced from cavalier 'free' Quantitative Easing policies which feed the debt even further, whilst impoverishing further the real economy and those within it.

Can't happen eh ? This is the real delusion - it WILL happen, the debts have been extended & pretended to the point they have no where else to go. My advice to the wise 'buy to let landlord', is 'sell' while you still can with a modicum of equity. Shirk away from this and you will likely lose the lot.

Germany, the 'real economic' powerhouse of Europe. Keep a close eye on Deutsche Bank, another one of the extend & pretend entities. $90 trillion of debt derivatives on its balance sheet and has just had to start writing down the CDOs on that. It is going bankrupt, which invariably means even the German tax-payer, the EU tax-payer if they can wangle it, will have to be 'bailed-in' to rescue it. Makes the ECBs €1.14 QE seem rather trivial wouldn't you say.

The debt volcano is ready to blow. All it needs is a trigger and when it does you don't want to have all your cash in the bank or in mortgaged property. Tenants hard pushed to pay their rent will be the very least of your problems.

"But the economy is doing better than most". No it isn't - this is pure fantasy. Corporations have been buying back their own shares to bolster their share prices. If the economy was really doing well, there would be REAL capital. With zero interest rates, soon to be -ve, there is no real capital, only more extended & rolled over debt which cannot be rolled over much more.

Do you really want to only learn about this on say the BBC's "One Show", with a handful of neo-liberal economists all singing their usual anthem, "We didn't see it coming" ?

@Landlord

I am sure they would say FU too,

The fact is that there are plenty of overused and pointless lines that Landlords use.

To answer your question, the reason they keep saying it because the Government it generating a culture of create HATE GROUPS, they want each group to hate the other groups because as long as you are hating the groups you are not hating them.

Groups include

DSS claimants, they are costing the state a fortune
Immigrants - Aren't they terrible taking jobs, tenancies, food and air
Disabled - shall we put them through hell so they kill themselves
Landlords - should they pay more tax
Pensioners - should we means test
NHS - terrible money wasting organisation
Police - terrible money wasting organisation
BBC - terrible money wasting organisation

Anyone who has ever run a business focuses on the BIG money, if you want to save you look to reduce your BIGGEST costs or you go after customers who have a bigger spend.

So when we look at the cost welfare, two thirds are the elderly with 42% being the state pension. So charges like the bedroom tax do not dent anything, it has cost more to collect than it generated.

The fact is they do not have the balls to do anything to the "silver tops" who get around 17 benefits, they did tell the BBC they would have to fund the free TV license for the over 75's

So when they demonise these groups of course they respond.

They coin phrases like "hard working people" which they mention with EVERY statement and you fall for it.

The simple fact is that ANYONE can fall off the ladder and end up broke, homeless and unless they are disabled or have kids they are told "we have no obligation to you".

Ask any divorced man!

Yet the Government found the 500m to bomb Libya, gives away £12bn to £14bn in foreign aid, pays a £15m recalc fee from the EU, finds 2bn to spend on GCHQ after Paris and will waste an eye watering £7bn on renovating the houses of parliament. They are experts at wasting "other people's money".

To justify this they have to pull you along with them so they get you blaming a different group each day, they do this primarily via Murdoch and the Barclay Brothers, the rest of the machine follows. If the BBC dares to question they become the latest group that needs to be targetted.

The fact is that for most of the Country Landlords can't afford to take on DSS claimants unless they are disabled, although those on ESA are having their survival money reduced to £74 a week.

If you got hit by a car and could not work but you "had worked hard all your life" you might be slightly pissed off that the welfare state did not give you enough money to heat and eat!

The reason Landlords can't afford to employ anyone on DSS or at risk of going on DSS is because of the LHA allowance. This is the rate set for your area for the 30th percentile of rents in the area (basically the shit holes). This is the maximum amount the Council will pay in Housing Benefit.

If you rent a 4 bed house to a couple with 2 daughters aged 6 and 8 they will only get the LHA rate for a 2 bed place. Needless to say they will soon be in arrears. The fact that benefits have been frozen for years whilst heating costs and rents have risen massively means there is no spare cash to anyone in this situation.

So what is the solution, should we kill them off, well as terrible as it sounds that is what is happening. the recent stats from the DWP showed that an EXTRA 67 people a day were killing themselves within 6 weeks of an ESA decision. Saddam Hussein killed 5000 Kurds and we called it Genicide, what do you call Cameron killing 97,000?

Volunteering in this area I asked people who went through this process why they thought people were taking their own lives (whether they got a positive or negative decision). They said that the whole process of being treated like scum, put through the invasive and trick questioning made them come face to face with their disability and not want to live anymore.

Some of them are even former landlords!

Some home truths well worth saying there David.

What so many landlords don't yet realise, is that once interest rates rise, and they will, probably automatically once the teetering bond market crashes; they run a substantial risk of suffering the same fate.

One trick pony economic Britain extending & pretending with the property market because virtually every other market has been totally hollowed out - hence the epidemic levels of working poor as well as unemployed and grossly under-employed.

When it happens, the sanitised phrase is 'an economic correction'. The unsanitised phrase is 'complete & utter carnage' and it's coming, there's no escaping it now.

The whole system's really messed up. I do understand from being a previous landlord myself, that tenants are a massive mixed bag of brilliant to horrific.. You just get better with time judging character- more so by gut than references sometimes.

Anyhow , being on both sides of the fence from owning a few properties to losing everything because of a sudden tragedy and a now a legacy of permanent disability- where to be brutally honest, its extremely hard to get hired anywhere as a result- despite the whole two ticks disability positive employers... It's rubbish.... They will not hire- only 16% are lucky enough to get hired with a permanent disability..it's dire... ESP if you are very highly educated.....you deffo are not going to get hired at Starbucks even if desperate for any Pt work!

So after losing everything to fund initial disability, I relied on savings, equity and sale of all assets...it eventually ran out during illness/disability and thus the horrific reliance on benefits... It's a real kick in the face when you have peaked in life professionally and with income assets etc, to total collapse- nothing was your personal fault..and suddenly people lump you into some 'under achiever' category if they don't know you... So when people get upset and use the retort of 'I have worked hard all my life'- as irrelevant as it is to landlord, it's just and outpouring of grief and frustration of being compared to professional under achievers... A common moan for all affected by the mass financial crisis lay offs in the professional sector.

Anyhow landlords and prospective tenants ought to show a bit more oomph and lobby the Govt for
A much better deal on accepting HB. Many more cherries are needed in terms of tax breaks, free insurance, guarantees by the council and profiles of prospective tenants online with good references... You need to be treated with benefits as if you were running a charity with all the extra breaks and incentive . And we do know a tenants situation could change overnight as jobs are not stable as they once were or a sudden tragedy could befall them... So when that happens when a sudden need to claim HB due to lay off etc? It. Leaves you stuck for eons without rent...this may be a lovely tenant too...but neither of you have control over tragic suddenness...

So idea is council must issue emergency rent payments until benefits are sorted and kick in ,and if there is a shortfall after benefit assessment it's in the clients hands not yours...so you can risk manage if you have a mortgage that's unable to cushion sudden losses....

The second thing, compartmentalising benefits is ludicrous. You should be given a set amount as a tenant -a budget based on region and circumstances so the tenant can move to cheaper areas easily without the hassle of constantly re applying not knowing what they will get or if there is a big shortfall..and also worry snout destabilising their kids school year....this is needlessly complex...a flat rate of benefit based on averages of rent...it would likely be cheaper in the long run for taxpayer...I swear... A lot less ££ council admin positions needed to manage flat rate...

Anyhow the system is a mess, and I sympathise will the really good DSS tenants caught up in a tragic loss, and the landlords who give it their all to accommodate , but simply can't due to their own circumstances around finance and restrictions. It's different if you are a mega rich philanthropist and owns scads of mortgage free properties due to inheritance... Then I think there is a moral duty to try to give back a bit to society...

Anyhow, I do hope that a group forms and steps up boldly suggests a launch of heady incentives to landlords to accept good DSS tenants and get councils to assume all damage risk as a back up.Good incentives would stimulate the markets and would be a positive step for all- and try to make the decent landlords believe it's better than win win. This would really alleviate the housing crisis, ESP in London....

But I also believe there should be bigger punishments to seriously rogue landlords who skirt the rules and rent out nightmare unsafe properties without due care... They should be fined heavily and the fines could be levied to the good landlords registered with council as rewards for doing a fantastic job by taking proper legal care of properties and maintaining good relationships with good tenants..

Anyhow all thoughts on trying to make it more win win for all...
Trust me , we don't want a ton of camps and awful slums set up... With homeless and addicted lying around everywhere... Like in America... We are better than that...it creates more festering and violent crime...keep the streets clean, safe and people housed first... We also need to push the duty of care back to the Govt to publicly house all vulnerable and maybe reasses eligibility for council housing... ESP the lifelong tenancy units taken up by two big incomes- or healthy young people who work full time- as there is no ceiling on earnings to remain eligible in public housing, so wealthy able bodied working people who can afford the private market are using up the much needed housing stock as it should be reserved for vulnerable and low income people..I know the govt is slowly changing this, but rich dual income young and able bodied people should never be in
Public housing, unless there is a ton of it available..

@Landlord

You deleted the post from Martina the Dog Walker.

I was about to make a response about how Landlords would be more concerned about their mental health than their DSS status.

I expected to get slammed but still maybe a valid subject for a future post, we all can and do experience mental health issues that are situational.

However, some people have paranoid and delusional aspects that can be very challenging if you are the subject of either.

I was involved in a case that was very hard to deal with because I felt really sorry for the tenant living in this world of fear and anxiety, but I think the average Landlord is simply not prepared for such tenants.

This person was eventually housed by a Housing Association who had forms that alerted them of any issue that made the tenant unable to fend for themselves whether physically or mentally.

The concerns I have over DSS tenants is that as I have stated above they have effectively been priced out or rules out of the private rental market. At the same time the Government has instigated the demise of Housing Associtations by forcing them to have to sell properties that they have low or no costs. Coupled with this they have removed their access to social housing stock from developers, suggesting that they survive on "affordable" housing but the cost of those mean that the numbers do not add up.

Some very big HA's are in serious trouble, they have gone to the city and remortgaged their stock. Well if you want to know how successful this strategy is just look at Woolworths, their business model was based on cheap or freehold properties. After the UK broke free they remortgaged their properties to fund the purchase of B&Q, Comet and Superdrug who became the Kingfisher group. Woolworths was then spun off from Kingfisher but they could no longer supply on such low margins when they had to pay rent on their properties, hence the collapse.

Housing Assocations are the same, they are dependent on low priced property mortgaged over much longer periods.

This is such a flawed strategy, it means rents will be higher (already 40%), if rents are higher then LHA rates will be higher and if LHA rates are higher then the cost of Housing Benefits will be higher. As it is DSS tenants have to find a property in the lowest 30th percentile, without social housing even pushing it down to 5% will not make rents lower.

This is a train wreck waiting to happen, it is just a matter of time.

Private Landlords are themselves going to be a dying species, the Government policy is clear get big or get out. In time with consolidation we will see a small number of massive corporate landlords.

Just remember that your ideal private tenant today can fall off the ladder and become a DSS tenant tomorrow. So there is no escape and you can't have a clause in your tenancy agreement that DSS status gives you leave to break the tenancy.

Great I may go reply

It takes all sorts I guess but sometimes I can't help myself!

You do a great job at managing spammers whist keeping site relatively open.

I have a lot of DSS tenants who rent from me and have never had a problem with unpaid rent or bills as I do a over the top stringent vet on people, I may in some peoples eyes do to much vetting on an individual but better safe than sorry.
I think the Government are partly to blame for unpaid rent by letting the money go to the tenant not the landlord and lazy agencies because they don't care a whole lot.
I would even go as far as to say the Government at some level have done this pay the rent to the tenant on purpose as in the long run no one will take DSS and they will save a fortune as is happening now as homeless numbers rise as never seen before and as for the stats only homeless who are sleeping in plain sight are counted by official stats as normal gov stats are worthless and political like the falling jobless in real life they have risen a massive amount but an extra 10p or so classifies them as employed by real stats............... I'm off on one help

'I Have Worked Hard My Entire Life' some would say TOO much work!

The tenant is an ADULT, just because someone has misfortune to lose their job does NOT mean they are no longer capable of managing their finances. In your vetting process maybe add an 11+ paper and see if they can add up!

It is actually YOUR fault if a DSS tenant falls into arrears, you see in your vetting process you probably did not account for over occupation, yet this is the biggest reason for arrears.

Need vs Want, a couple move into a 2 bed flat, do they NEED 2 bedrooms or just the one? The DSS say just the one so they reduce the rent to LHA rate for 1 bedroom.

Next biggest reason, is over charging, so if your flat was in fact a one bed property, if you rent is above the LHA rate, then the DSS claimant will only be able to claim that LHA rate. So it was YOUR fault for overcharging!!

Agencies are disgusting vermin, they contribute by inflating rents so they can get their commission for doing a half arsed job, overcharge you on repaires with a mark up and forget to register your deposit or give PI etc.

Many Landlords actually do not want to be paid direct because they want to stay off the HMRC radar or have their mortgage companies know they are renting.

The last lot were as bad as this lot for only paying LHA rate, it is a simple issue of supply and demand. If they did not allow 6 million people to come in an compete for rents (albeit that 3m went back) and if they actually got truly affordable housing built, then there would be less demand and rents would be lower. That itself would help because the LHA rate is the 30th percentile of local rents, so if rents keep increasing so does the welfare costs.

You are right about stats stats and damn lies, the homeless number is huge and getting worse, what has changed is that the homeless are no longer the drunks and drug addicts, they are now just normal people who fall on a cash flow problem.

The Gov only counts claimants, it suspends claimants for no reason, the JC staff even have targets for suspending claims.

Woe betide anyone who falls off the ladder in this country.

Well I'm one of your statics David who could very well be homeless after Christmas. I live in a 2bed flat with my 3 children. Rent is 525 and yes I am a DSS tenant but I'm so hungry to work I'm looking for the right job finding it and competing is hard especially when iam asked do I ha e children and I say three. I have been informed that my rent is going to be cut and I'm trying harder than ever to find a job,( I have worked not been a DSS all my life)raise children and study. I already make up the down fall each month to make sure my rent is up to date as I believe the 13 payment thing is a joke. Iv tried to get a council property but I somewhere like 60th-80th when bidding and finding a job is getting harder. Iv tried looking for private rent.even for another two but prices are up and would only put me on same place. Government is to blame, but personally I don't think its just that. Nowadays finding a job is harder with children (single parent no family ) everything has to fit, rent bills, food, childcare, child expenses ie clothing school dinners, transport. With the increase of everything rising and wages not riding fast enough it's difficult.

@Ruby

I have a great deal of sympathy for you Ruby, the difficulty you have is that you are probably priced out of private housing, but unable to access social housing. Yet social housing is probably more appropriate to you.

Sadly a lot of people in your position need the landlord to issue a no fault section 21 eviction, on delivery of that you can present yourself to the housing dept and subject to conditions you will be a priority because you have children.

You must not have intentionally made yourself homeless, so you can't leave of your own accord, can't have any arrears, can't have been evicted because of antisocial behaviour.

I would have a chat with your Landlord, explain that you are struggling to afford the rent and ask if they are prepared to reduce it by a hundred and fifty pounds a month. They may knock off £100. You can ask the local authority to pay the Landlord direct as you are struggling to maintain rent. They will do it but he will not get it for 4 weeks, but he will at least get it.

Next you have to look at your budgets, everything needs to be cut back, use sites like eBay to sell stuff you do not need and sites like freecycle to get things you do need. Look at your energy bill, look at what is using the energy, fridge, boiler settings, etc.

Look at your other monthly outgoings, do you actually NEED this or that, I know there will be some things you are locked into but there are sites to compare things and they have forums to help you. If you run a car then insurance is another rip off, shop around.

Even with kids you can cut back, make their school lunches, do not buy crap, I know not easy but it is a good lesson for kids to cut back. They too can benefit from sites like freecycle. Also look at local churches, many have stores that help those in need.

I am sure that your rent is your biggest factor, where I live rent in social housing can be as little as half the private rent, typically 40% less.

Once the Council is responsible for you they will put you in temp housing for up to a year, but probably less because you have kids, just depends on demand in your area. This is just something you have to go through to get into social housing but once you have it you have 6 year tenancies and can swap after a year.

If you do not do this you will never get above 60 in the listings because there will always be someone with greater need.

I wish you all the luck you deserve.

Thank you for your comments David much appreciated advice, we are cutting back,ie charity shops try and grow own as well, eBay is a big fan of mine. We don't really have things we can sell, we live basically, but yes agree will have to tighten purse strings more and speak to landlord . thanks again :)

@Ruby

When you speak to Landlord, assuming you have no arrears then you can say to Landlord that you will totally understand if they feel they need to issue an S21 but you are just being straight with them.

Sometimes a Landlord would rather take a bit less for a good tenant who looks after their property.

If you have arrears you need to increase your payments and service the debt, tell the Council to pay it direct and make it a priority to bring arrears up to date, then at that point say the above to the Landlord. If your rent is above the LHA rate the Landlord will only get your housing benefit, but you can make up the different plus any arrears.

I hope you find a fantastic job, I have known people who have used time in Temp Housing to update their skills and aim for a higher paid job.

@Emma and @No One...

@Emma. You lack basic comprehension skills. No One is not saying you SHOULD accept weekly payments, he is saying that that is how he could pay. If No One has £623.08 every four weeks, that's 22.25 a day. A £650 monthly rent is actually slightly less than this, so No One could not only pay the rent but also have 88p leftover to buy boiled sweets with, or give you the extra 88p a day to cover the inconvenience to you. Obviously if you need monthly rent, then that is another matter, but quite where 'charity' comes into it is beyond me!

A person on DSS cannot necessarily undertake training to make themselves more employable and still get their benefits, and the benefits system is 'cracked' in that in doesn't really help people improve their employability... more a sticking plaster to keep them alive through rough times - and partly because the right-wing tabloids would then have a field day about how 'hard-working taxpayers are funding the education of DSS dossers' while the "Guardian" would defend the initiative in such a high faluten' way that 90% of the country wouldn't understand the explanation. Anyway, how you feel about the social security system is completely off topic.

There is a state law if you live in the UK: we pay in whatever we are required to pay by the state and take out whatever we are entitled to take. Given that you are so keen to ensure that people only get out of the welfare system what they pay in (though I fail to see an insurance system will work that way - you might as well stick the money under a matress!), I can only assume you won't be leaving your children a single penny in your will as they presumably will have done nothing to earn the money you worked so hard for yourself? Try to think about this in relation to what you are saying - it is interesting to look at things from another person's point of view.

@No One. Frankly I couldn't care less why you are on benefits (as part of this discussion, I mean). All I can say is you sound a fairly reasonable person to deal with and, all things being equal, I'd rather rent to you than to Emma. At least if we had to disagree about something, I'd have someone rational to disagree with and it would be less stress. Hope it all works out well for you... kind regards. JB

@John Bull

They last commented in 2013 I think!

I am not disagreeing with you, although I take issue with your saying "We pay whatever we are required to pay" there are many people able to use tax vehicles to not pay.

Nobody is going to be able to leave their children anything, we all bought into the deal but it did not mention us being responsible for paying our healthcare at £5900 a month for 3 years after a stoke. The NHS just denies it is healthcare and hey ho no inheritance for our kids UNLESS we have the foresight to create some sort of Trust at least 7 years before or give our property to our kids, hoping they don't kick us out!

Sorry, Is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?