Landlord Gas Safety Certificates (CP12) & Checks

Gemma,
Are you sure you have any gas supplied into the property?
Many flats just have electric for cooking, hot water and heating.
Sorry if it seems a silly question but a lot of tenants dont know when they first move in.

If there is gas supplied to your flat then insist on a gas safety check being done.

But dont lose any sleep over it.

You say the flats were built 4 years ago. Therefore any gas appliances fitted will have been modern and inspected to say they were correctly fitted.

If your neighbours have bought their flat, chances are they wont have had it inspected. Reason being because it is not necessary.

At this point, any gas safe engineers will be wetting themselves 'cos the whole scheme is a lovely little earner for them. Truth is, the law makes no distinction between a crappy old 40 year boiler and a newly fitted modern one.

The pressure between gas meter and boiler are different but nothing is being done is it safe

Sandie, you might be best off to ask that on a forum frequented by DIYers and gas engineers. Try: http://www.diynot.com/

Hello everyone,

My eye fell on this the other day:
http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/advice/flues_in_voids.aspx

It's a new regulation to ensure flues can be visually inspected along their whole length as part of the annual check.

Probably applies most to owners of whole flat blocks but could also apply if you're put boxing over a flue of any house of flat for decorative reasons.

"The boiler flues that this information relates to are connected to room-sealed fan assisted boilers."

So maybe it does not affect as many people as one might think.

@Sandy

"The pressure between gas meter and boiler are different but nothing is being done is it safe" -

Sorry - don't understand the question????? Are you saying there is a gas leak? If so or you suspect there is call the Gas Emergency Service on 0800 111999. When they come out tell them about the lack of gas safety certificate!

We have been renting our property for almost 4 years now, not once in this time has the landlord had the boiler or gas cooker checked.
Last week the boiler broke and after the landlord huffing and puffing, got it fixed at the cost of £350...............

The day after it was fixed we where told the rent would be getting increased to cover the cost of the repair, also other minor repairs we reported 2 Years ago, we are still reeling from the shock!

Does anyone know where we stand legally?

We were about to rent out a property but have discovered that the new Gas Safe Certificate requires the boiler flue to be inspectable over its full length. In our ground floor is not possible 'cos the flue passes upwards through ducting that passes through other flats above where it is not possible to fit inspection hatches. Surely there are lots of properties like this and like us are faced with changing to electric heating at huge capital and operation costs.
Any constructive comments would be appreciated

Hello Tim,

I don't let out flats for reasons just like this one, so my experience is limited. When I was browsing the regs, this is the distinct impression I got. If it can's be inspected visually along its whole length it won't get passed.

By a quirk, it's still completely fit for owner-occupation as the stingent safety regs which apply to landlords don't apply to owner-occupiers.

If it's going to be a big hole in your wallet then you may want to consider the option of selling.

Sorry this is probably not the fedback you hoped for.

Just about to put our flat up for rental, have installed new boiler and have an old gas hob.
Phoned British Gas about Gas safety certificate and was told I didn't need one for the boiler as it was brand new,
The hob doesn't have the flame failure detector, so would it get a certificate? Will I have to replace the hob, it's in good condition.
Thanks
Joan

Hello Joan,

I don't know the answers to your questions. I use an inspection firm called Gas Elec. I'm sure they would be happy to answer these questions, even if you don't need them to do a survey. A quick google finds them easily (fourth one down). Hope this helps.

Hi ive got a safety gas record and itduznt say the metre has been check tge next few days I had a gas leak had ring emerceny gas man he had put new metre in cuz the pipe wrk was leakin I got told if me and my baby didnt get out wen we did it wud of blown and now im tryin find out whos at fault

The information is wrong.
You do need to get a new Gas Safety Inspection between tenants even if the current one is still within date.
This is required by law.
We came across a serious and potentially life threatening situation only a couple of weeks ago - that the landlord was responsible for and will cost him money - it would have been avoided if the landlord had got an inspection before the new tenant.
You can find the details on my blog if you google Mrs Tara Plumbing.

It says a new inspection before a tenant t various places on the HSE website.
The HSE are responsible for prosecutions under the Gas Safety Regs 1998.
The specific legal reference is in the Approved Code of Practice to Gas Safety Installation and Use 1998.
It is online free to view.
See guidance point 226.
Of course you could see my book on the subject... where I quote this section in full.

I have reviewed recent landlord prosecutions and there is almost always some danger/ concern in addition rarely the just not having an up to date check. But how would you know everything was left safely by previous tenant if it was not checked.
Not saying your tenant sabotaged the home but could be accident...

Can I comment on recent comments about flue inspection hatches for flues in voids. This issue applies to all homes, including private homeowners, not just landlords.
If joints along your flue can't be inspected the boiler will be turned off as potentially dangerous.
Of course home owners don't need to get safety inspections - but this will happen when they get an annual service or call out for repair.
Flues in voids are more common in multi-dwelling properties and uncommon in houses.
You can read the full story under warning notices at the Gas Safe Website.

see: 226 on this - download it for free:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf

I would have to hunt around on HSE website but know I've seen it there too in at least a couple of places.

Just to clarify - we talk about Landlord Gas Certificate and think we know what we mean. There is not a "certificate" there is an inspection and an inspection report.
This document says an inspection is needed between tenants - so of course you would want a written report to prove it was done.

I'm renting out a flat which has gas central heating, however the boiler is a communal boiler outside the property. There is no gas hobs/oven or fire so am somewhat confused on whether I need a gas safety certificate.

Can anyone help?

Hello Freddie,

Boilers in shared areas is not my speciality, but. I suggest the law expects every boiler to be safety inspected. So YOU don't need a safety cert, but the landlord needs to demonstrate he has a safety cert for every piece of gas equipment in the shared areas which service your building.

Hope this helps.

Freddie.
According to HSE website if there are no gas appliances in the property you do not need an annual "cert." But if gas pipework passes through it must be maintained.
BUT the boiler must be checked:
All landlords should be aware of the Approved Code of Practise to the Gas Safety Installation and Use Reg 1998. This can be downloaded free from HSE. I think point 215 applies and 211. So you need a contract between yourself and the leaseholder about the gas central heating (which you probably have) and an arrangement about the Safety Inspect Report - it may be acceptable to display it (point 222).

I have been renting my house for over 2 years now and my landlord has not had my boiler checked and also speaking to the tenants before me they did not have it done either.
I have got the housing inspection team in now to get this sorted and reported this to the HSE. Since I have done this I have been issued with a notice leave. So the landlord now wants us out. What can I do to make sure the boiler is sorted so the next tenants dont live in a death trap house?

A quick correction about the comment: "...your gas will be turned off.." by Tara Plumber.
It is a myth that a plumber, gasinstaller or whatever you call them has the power, let alone the obligation, to turn off the gas if a householder does not want it to be turned off. He or she can only ADVISE you that there is a risk and that it may be safer to not use the gas for the moment, but they can NOT turn the gas off without permission.

An update on the notorious 'flues in voids".
Whereas before only inspection hatches were 'approved' for complying with the requirements of GSIUR 26-9 and thus with the requirements for a 'landlord certificate', other methods are now accepted, provided they assure a complete confirmation that the flue in question is safe.

Hi,

can someone help me with this. . .

I moved into a property last week, its had the saefty check which is all fine (next due in october)

I am on a pre payment gas and electricity meter and noticed my gas meter hasnt been checked since 2006.

Do the meter needs checking regulary and if so whos responsibility is it?

Thanks :)

Hello,

Hope this doesn't sound daft. I'm thinking of renting my flat out - there are no gas appliances in flat at all. But I do know there's gas in the close (other properties) do I need to get a certificate for common grounds gas supply??

Any info would be great! Thanks,

Jacq

Hi I'm a gas engineer and work in the midlands if anyone needs a gas safety certificate email me and I can sort a good price normal charge fourty pound when there's a boiler and oven\ hob

BEN "It is a myth that a plumber, gasinstaller or whatever you call them has the power, let alone the obligation, to turn off the gas if a householder does not want it to be turned off. He or she can only ADVISE you that there is a risk and that it may be safer to not use the gas for the moment, but they can NOT turn the gas off without permission."

However if the Appliance/installation is deemed immediately dangerous and the client does not agree to have the appliance /installation disconnected or made safe then TRANSCO will be immediately notified and they WILL come and disconnect the gas meter within 1 hr. There will then be a reconnection fee on top of any rectification work.
SO a Gas engineer is obligated to ensure the safety of the gas supply and legally can ensure that the safety comes first with or without the permission of the gas user.

Mrs Tara Plumbing, whilst I am sympathetic to your concern that someone could tamper accidentally or otherwise with a gas installation between tenancies with in a certification period, that a further certificate is not required, but it is the landlords risk if a problem occurs and they would have to satisfy HSE that they had mitigated any risk.
Likewise a New installation is registered and a certificate of installation is issued, then for 12 months from installation the landlord certificate is not required this installation certificate is acceptable.

BENJI "But dont lose any sleep over it.

You say the flats were built 4 years ago. Therefore any gas appliances fitted will have been modern and inspected to say they were correctly fitted.

If your neighbours have bought their flat, chances are they wont have had it inspected. Reason being because it is not necessary.

At this point, any gas safe engineers will be wetting themselves 'cos the whole scheme is a lovely little earner for them. Truth is, the law makes no distinction between a crappy old 40 year boiler and a newly fitted modern one."

You are horribly miss informed and prejudiced. There are unfortunately plenty of modern installations poorly installed or unsafe, flues in voids are a particular problem of new appliances installed in flats where flues have to get outside from awkward positions. Flue inspection is key to ensuring the appliance is not Spilling POC.
JUST BECAUSE A PRODUCT IS NEW does not make it safe, it can fail it can have issues and it can kill. Whilst undoubtedly gas appliances are safer, are you seriously presenting the argument a Gas safety should not be carried out annually as per the law simply because you feel it is irrelevant or a cost burden? Safety for far less than £10 a month are you seriously believing that's a cost a landlord can ill afford or begrudge??

Having been an engineer for 47 years, with all my tickets. The WORST ENGINEERS ARE THE GAS SAFE ones,. Remember Gas Safe was not created by Gas Engineers, it was created from CORGI BY PLUMBERS, YES!!!!!!!!! PLUMBERS. All the LSR are to protect, themselves,.
What about boilers, their basic design,.,
EG Sime 100c format,. THE TIME BOMB BOILERS. HOW MANY HAVE YOU HEARD OF GOING ON FIRE

Lets look at basic boilers,. BBU, WAU, COMBIs, CONDENSING, STORAGE, SYSTEM.
Aberdeen city Council put in 2000 Sime 100cs knowing they had a volatile PCB, knowing they had 23 modifications, knowing they had been discontinued in 2007. In Aberdeen there were numerous cases of these boilers firing dry(no water in system). Despite modifications they still fire dry. So Aberdeen City Then buy a further 10000 modified boilers with inherent faults, to PCB, APS, DV, PUMP, FAN assy. Why its called brown envelopes, sweetners,.
Landlords get your checks done,. THE GAS SAFE CARDS MEAN NOTHING, COULD BE A TAXI DRIVER, just done his 3 week GAS SAFE COURSE

Hi, I would like some advice please.
I currently rent with my partner, and our two small children, a 5 bed house, and pay a significant amount of rent for this.
After the gas safe engineer came to do the annual check, he has disconnected the gas cooker, the boiler, and the gas fire in the lounge. All certified as 'at risk' so we currently have no hot water, heating or a cooker, for about 24 hours now.
I have advised the Agent who in tern has advised the landlord with no response as yet.
As we have two small children (ages 1 & 2) and we are unable to cook them a decent meal (incurring the cost of eating out each night as the new cooker - which was already broken but usable, will not be here for about 3 weeks), bathe or keep them warm, where do we stand as tenants?
We are not unreasonable people, and cannot find anything in our agreement with reference to this.
Can anyone help?? Thank you!

We recently carried out a gas safety inspection for a landlord which failed and we had to disconnect the boiler, the tenants were waiting outside to move in but the letting agents refused to let them move in because we could not pass the installation so they moved into a hotel for a week. The landlord ended up paying the bill.

Saying that did the gas engineer get permission to turn off the appliances ?
He can only turn them off and disconnect if he has permission from the owner/responsible person.

I've been renting for nearly 5 years first two years i had a boiler check but never since , i asked about it he said its ok don't need to be checked ! its a gas boiler so hasn't been checked in 3years now

if i ask for any repairs which only once in all the years here he gets nasty with me so i end up just leaving it and nothing gets done . he won't even give me a contact number only email address . one when i had his number he swore to me saying he was getting his dinner ( hope you choke`)

might just stop paying rent and see how long that takes him to get of his fat ass cos i have rights and with him not checking my gas boiler i shouldn't have to pay rent , well no rent for 7months or more till he gets a court order i saved up enough anyhow and he will go to prison and get a fine and no rent money of me .

by the way the boiler is old too like him about same age to be more precise so its on its last legs i hope

I would be grateful if anyone could offer me some advice.I recently purchased a buy tp let property and was told it had an existing gas safety certificate which the letting agent showed to me and had to present to the mortgage company.I have now had two independent plumbers assess the property and both have reported that in no way could they pass the property as has safe.I am just about to have all of the work done.I would like to cancel my contract with the letting agents and go direct with the tenants as they are good.Will I be able to do this as the agent has proved so irresponsible or is there any action I can take against the agent which I can use as leverage?

Gas engineer today said he can't pass the cooker altho everything fine with it except it hasn't got FSD (fire safety device) as it was manufactured pre 2010. It is in my son's flat which is about to be rented out. I thought as gas engineer has checked safety on it, and found no fault other than new legislation is he correct?

I served my tenant with her two month NTQ in February; after several years renting the property out we have decided to sell. Since receiving the NTQ she has stopped paying rent and is refusing to move out. We have filed for an eviction for the courts, but we are currently in limbo. Today I received an email from the (useless) letting agent telling me that I have to renew the Gas Safety Certificate. Is this true? Even if the lease has expired and she is refusing to pay rent? Thanks in advance!

Hi,

I moved into a house in January letting from an agency. Short lets of 4 months are available and already there have been new tenants in the two other rooms.

We have gas certificate that's due to be renewed in two weeks but we've had lots of problems this year and no engineer was sent out. The gas oven is really old, to turn it off you need to switch the dial to zero and it must "pop" out, otherwise the gas remains on even if switched off at the wall. Three weeks ago, new tenants were cooking, they turned the gas off at the wall but the dial hadn't popped out so the gas remained on all night! I came in the next morning and the room was flooded in gas and I felt ill. I immediately reported it to the agency but they just sent a standard email. Should they have done more???

my landlord and his gas man just came round to do a test the gas man went into the loft and the landlord checked the hob, does the gas man have to check the hob too?

Yes the gas engineer should check all appliances, flue, gas pipes, meter and test them and sign the GSC to say that's been done. Always check the gas engineer he/she has an ID card from gas safe check (we all have one, period) that it matches the person in front of you and look at the back of it to tell you what appliances they can work on. If you are unsure ring gas safe and check them out in person or look on the gas safe website to verify them.

Flamefix

Rather odd icons I'll have to be a nobody ...

British Gas has given PASS for Gas Safety Certificate but also written under remedial action taken "Vent OR to replace boiler adv many times". My tenants live at the property. Is there any legal requirement to get this work done even when it is PASS. Though British Gas themselves had replaced vent exactly five years ago in year 2011 hence I am bit surprised why they are advising to replace vent again?

Any advise would be helpful since I do not want to be on wrong side of any legal requirement but also do not want to pay to British Gas exorbitant charges.

I have worked in Gas for 20 years. A Gas engineer who even suggests that a Gas Safety inspection is not really necessary annually is totally irresponsible. They should know that components deteriorate with use for example a gas valve can be working fine one visit and be letting by the next. Case seals perish with age and need replacing. By making irresponsible comments on an open forum could cost lives!

Hi,

I've just bought a flat with a valid gas safety certificate. Do I need to get a new one so it is under my name or is it still valid until it expires?

thanks

I live in an apartment and my management company provide my heating via the communal gas boiler. I have no trust in my management company; to the point that I believe the copy of the gas safety certificate I asked them for has been falsified. I received a letter from my management company saying that we would have interuptions to hot water/heating due to maintenance on the boiler. The dates on my letter for maintenance was for 16/17 Feb 2017. I had a neighbour doing checks on the boiler room on these dates and no engineer/maintenance was carried out. I emailed the management company asking for there gas safety certificate knowing that the service had not been completed. Three weeks later and only after complaints from other residents; I was forwarded copies of 2 gas safety certificates with completion date 3/3/2016 & 3/3/2017 in identical handwriting and completed by the same engineer who is contracted to this management company. I have also kept the letter they sent me for there annual gas boiler maintenance in 2016 which is NOT the same date as shown on the 2016 safety certificate.

Where do I go from here? Your help with this matter would be very much appreciated.

Kind regards.......Bernie

Hi i have 2 tenants who have not used their gas boilers for a year and refuse to get gas on their meters via a card as they owe standing charge how do we do a cp12?
cheers

Dave

Hello.
I’m living in my grandparents house, who left it to my mum and auntie.
They have been charging me rent I have two children. I’m 2 months behind, and they are trying to evict me and there grand kids. Rediclous I know. But I have being thinking not once in the 4 years have I had gas checked I have proof that in them years I’ve asked twice and nothing has been done. And now they want me out. Basically I want to stay so is it going to look bad if I report them to gas register or is it my right to as them have never done it? What can be the consequences for them not doing the gas??? 4 years!

I am about to rent a propery. The gas boiler has just been serviced and there is paperwork/certificate to show all is ok. Will this act as a gas safety test/check or do I need to pay to have another test? It is the only gas appliance in the house. I have removed a gas fire from the lounge and the cooker is all electric. Thanks in advance.

I need to create a tenancy agreement. Is there anything online that is government compliant anyone can suggest? The one you can download on government website is 50 pages and rather complicated. I need something I can adapt with specific terms and need it to be simplistic!!! Thanks in advance.

I have had no live gas feed on the property for two years. Does the landlord still need a gas safety certificate?

You state here that a new installation is deemed safe for 12 months but then suggest the next inspection is still due 12 months from the previous one not 12 months from the installation date. That can't be right. Also, many boilers nowadays require an annual service to maintain warranty. Can an annual service satisfy the annual inspection requirements?